Jolly Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Dear All, I Am applying for my first FAC, I have been using my mates .22 and .243 for the last year (under his supervision of course) what I want to know is: is this a,legal b,ok for him to write a letter saying I have plenty of experience with both calibres to show the FAC officer when he comes to the house ? or is this pointless ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedwickedmotox Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 I was quering this, basically i rang basc and they said it was ok, i then got advised by a few people that it was not ok i then rang my feo and he said it was NOT ok, i quoted the estate rifle clause and how it was suitable in that purpose and not the other all his comment was it is a grey area! Do not write a letter saying you have been live firing your freinds rifle, only that you have been out with him lots! Remember it is illegal to hold in your posseion bullets/firearms without the correct licence and that rifle/bullet combination being ON your firearms certificate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Posted February 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 this is what I thought till i read this from the Mets site Can I shoot without a certificate? Yes under certain circumstances – many shotgun clubs and shooting grounds hold ‘special shooting days’ where non-certificate holders can fire club shotguns to test their interest in the sport. Approved rifle and muzzle-loading clubs will allow you to shoot club guns providing you are a club member. There are normally provisions within the club rules, which allow non-members to become "guests", sponsored by a club member, and to use club weapons to shoot on a limited number of days. Another way to shoot shotguns and even rifles without a certificate is when you are accompanied by the landowner or his agent, (e.g. game warden), shooting on his land, using his weapons within the limitations of the authorities on the certificate. However, as a non-certificate holder, you cannot borrow another person's gun, if he is not the occupier of the land you intend to shoot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Dear All, I Am applying for my first FAC, I have been using my mates .22 and .243 for the last year (under his supervision of course) what I want to know is: is this a,legal b,ok for him to write a letter saying I have plenty of experience with both calibres to show the FAC officer when he comes to the house ? or is this pointless ? yes it will help and depending on your force may not make you have a mentor,the more experience you can show the better it will be good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 its down to being the servent of the land owner your frend is supliying a service to the land owner(wether paid or unpayed )so is the servent and a servent of the land owner can lend and supervise you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Have you been using it with him on his land/land which he occupies? If so, it's all good and legal, if he isn't the occupier then I don't think you're allowed to do that. I think he also has to be aged 21 +. I don't know your force, but you may find that you won't be granted a certificate without mentoring conditions without having used the calibres first, though it doesn't have to be stated in a letter, at interview they'll ask and if you give them your mates number they'll ring and confirm he's taught you about the safety of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) i think you may find its occupier or the servant of the occupier and i never had a mentor condition for non of my rifles .22lr .17hmr or the 222 Edited February 11, 2012 by fruitloop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 With my force (Durham) it is perfectly acceptable for a non fac holder to use a fac rifle to gain experience before he/she applies for their own fac its even sometimes advised you gain experience that way before you can apply (usually cf). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 With my force (Durham) it is perfectly acceptable for a non fac holder to use a fac rifle to gain experience before he/she applies for their own fac its even sometimes advised you gain experience that way before you can apply (usually cf). and in Norfolk under my FEO is not!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 With my force (Durham) it is perfectly acceptable for a non fac holder to use a fac rifle to gain experience before he/she applies for their own fac its even sometimes advised you gain experience that way before you can apply (usually cf). and in Norfolk under my FEO is not!!!!! Well it just goes to show every force has its own policy wether you can/cant use fac without license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearpigeon Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well it just goes to show every force has its own policy wether you can/cant use fac without license. The Law is the Law regardless of which county or Police Force you are under! Under sections 1 and 2 of the 1968 Act, it is an offence for a person “to have in their possession or to purchase or acquire” a firearm or ammunition to which section 1 applies or a shot gun without holding the appropriate certificate. You may be able to shoot under certain circumstances which include: At an organised clay pigeon shoot whereby a Section 11(6) permit has been granted, which allows non-certificate holders to shoot. Approved rifle and muzzle loading clubs will allow you to shoot club guns providing you are a club member. There are normally provisions within the club rules for non-members to become 'guests', sponsored by a club member and to use club firearms to shoot on a limited number of days. Under section 11(4) of the 1968 Act a person conducting or carrying on a miniature rifle range (whether for a rifle club or otherwise) or shooting gallery at which only miniature rifles and ammunition not exceeding .23 inch calibre or air weapons not declared by the Secretary of State to be specially dangerous are used, may without a firearm certificate, purchase, acquire or have in their possession such miniature rifles and ammunition therefore. Whilst there is no legal definition of a miniature rifle, (other than one which does not exceed .23 inch in calibre) it is generally accepted that this refers only to rifles firing .22 rimfire cartridges. This is to avoid high performance centrefire rifles such as the .220 Swift being defined as “miniature rifles” not exceeding .23 calibre. Persons using the range are exempt from holding a firearm certificate in respect only of the use of such miniature rifles and ammunition at the range or gallery. Any further exemption in the case of a club can only be secured by obtaining approval from the Secretary of State. Section 11(5) of the Firearms Act 1968, allows you, without holding a shotgun certificate, to use a shotgun when you are accompanied by the occupier of the land (landowner or holder of sole shooting rights) to shoot on his land using a shotgun borrowed from the occupier. Section 16(1) of the Firearms Act 1968 (as amended) allows a person to borrow a firearm from the occupier of private premises and use it in the presence of either the occupier or their servant without holding a firearm certificate in respect of the rifle. The above are extracts from the Home Office Guidance to the Police and is not different from county to county or Police Force to Police Force it’s the same for us all and can not be interpreted in any other manner than it is written. For Actual Legal advice you need to contact somebody with in depth knowledge of Firearms law in the UK and the only people who I would trust is BASC and I believe it is important that any person who undertakes shooting and has any concerns about the law should join BASC and phone the Legal Hotline for help. Please do not accept from any person that what you have been told is correct always take legal advice from BASC or the CPSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearpigeon Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 yes it will help and depending on your force may not make you have a mentor,the more experience you can show the better it will be good luck Where is this law I often here mentioned of having to be mentored prior to applying for a Section 1 Firearms written?? I have never seen any paperwork showing this too been the law in the UK! Has anyone seen this in writing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletyne Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Where is this law I often here mentioned of having to be mentored prior to applying for a Section 1 Firearms written?? I have never seen any paperwork showing this too been the law in the UK! Has anyone seen this in writing? Don't think there is one just got my fac .22 and .223 and I hadnt even fired a rifle before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad1 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 With my force (Durham) it is perfectly acceptable for a non fac holder to use a fac rifle to gain experience before he/she applies for their own fac its even sometimes advised you gain experience that way before you can apply (usually cf). Yes i have to agree with luckyshot It was because of him I gained my fac including c/f on first application Once again thanks m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 The Law is the Law regardless of which county or Police Force you are under! Under sections 1 and 2 of the 1968 Act, it is an offence for a person “to have in their possession or to purchase or acquire” a firearm or ammunition to which section 1 applies or a shot gun without holding the appropriate certificate. You may be able to shoot under certain circumstances which include: At an organised clay pigeon shoot whereby a Section 11(6) permit has been granted, which allows non-certificate holders to shoot. Approved rifle and muzzle loading clubs will allow you to shoot club guns providing you are a club member. There are normally provisions within the club rules for non-members to become 'guests', sponsored by a club member and to use club firearms to shoot on a limited number of days. Under section 11(4) of the 1968 Act a person conducting or carrying on a miniature rifle range (whether for a rifle club or otherwise) or shooting gallery at which only miniature rifles and ammunition not exceeding .23 inch calibre or air weapons not declared by the Secretary of State to be specially dangerous are used, may without a firearm certificate, purchase, acquire or have in their possession such miniature rifles and ammunition therefore. Whilst there is no legal definition of a miniature rifle, (other than one which does not exceed .23 inch in calibre) it is generally accepted that this refers only to rifles firing .22 rimfire cartridges. This is to avoid high performance centrefire rifles such as the .220 Swift being defined as “miniature rifles” not exceeding .23 calibre. Persons using the range are exempt from holding a firearm certificate in respect only of the use of such miniature rifles and ammunition at the range or gallery. Any further exemption in the case of a club can only be secured by obtaining approval from the Secretary of State. Section 11(5) of the Firearms Act 1968, allows you, without holding a shotgun certificate, to use a shotgun when you are accompanied by the occupier of the land (landowner or holder of sole shooting rights) to shoot on his land using a shotgun borrowed from the occupier. Section 16(1) of the Firearms Act 1968 (as amended) allows a person to borrow a firearm from the occupier of private premises and use it in the presence of either the occupier or their servant without holding a firearm certificate in respect of the rifle. The above are extracts from the Home Office Guidance to the Police and is not different from county to county or Police Force to Police Force it’s the same for us all and can not be interpreted in any other manner than it is written. For Actual Legal advice you need to contact somebody with in depth knowledge of Firearms law in the UK and the only people who I would trust is BASC and I believe it is important that any person who undertakes shooting and has any concerns about the law should join BASC and phone the Legal Hotline for help. Please do not accept from any person that what you have been told is correct always take legal advice from BASC or the CPSA. Borrowed rifles on private premises 6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a person to borrow a rifle from the occupier of private premises and to use it on those premises in the presence of either the occupier or their servant without holding a firearm certificate in respect of that rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta28g Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 and in Norfolk under my FEO is not!!!!! Well whilst at college we used center fire rifles on the estate rifle principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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