il cacciatore Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 We as UK subjects are deemed as being free but what does freedom mean? The dictionary definition is: free·dom n. 1 : the quality or state of being free: as a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b : liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another c : the quality or state of being exempt or released from something onerous. I believe that freedom is a falsity, I dont believe that we are truely "free" as the definition describes. We are going to be required to use and carry identity cards that can be asked for by a variety of different organisations and without one, whether you pay your taxes or not you may be denied service without your ID card for example your National Health Service, your local planning authority or for opening a bank account etc. You may also be asked to provide it by the police. If your out walking in the street at 2 oclock in the morning the police may think you are suspicious and ask for your ID card. When you enrol which will become effectively compulsory you will have a record for life and you must keep it upto date, your fingerprints and eye scan will be held on computer and you will have to provide your details whether you want to or not. You are not free to decide. There are CCTV cameras on every major town's street corners that have facial recognition and number plate recognition built in so they can check if your car is MOT'd TAXED and Insured. Forgot to renew your road tax by 3 days? Dont worry youve been automatically fined and can expect a bill through your door. Do you share an appearance withsomeone else, you may just be wrongfully arrested by the facial recognition systems. You are under survailance by the state, this is another thing that goes against the definition of the word freedom (freedom from constraint). In a little while, when the technology presents itself, the government are going to make a GPS system that will be fitted inside your car and will provide a pay-and-go system that will replace fuel and road tax with a pay per mile system. They will know where you go with your car at all times of the day, whether you slip over the speed limit accidently (on a country road in the middle of nowhere for example) and you will be required to have one (and pay for it) Using your internet and accidently downloaded a copywrited file? You may just be arrested and sent to prison, thats right, your ISP is required by law if asked by an organisation wanting to prosecute you for copywrite crime. You dont have privacy in your own home. This is not mentioning all the other things that have been banned that may have a complete innocent use, like if you carry a knife on you (even a little one) you may be arrested. When you break the speed limit you are coerced into admitting the crime, which is a fundemental breach of human rights, as your supposed to be innocent until proven guilty (which they can only prove by making you confess) You dont have a right to silence. If someone breaks into your house and holds you at gunpoint and you hit him on the head with a bat and dont kill him or seriously hurt him chances are youll get a bigger sentence than them. They also have the terrorism act to arrest and hold anyone without charge on suspicion only. Dont really know where this is going... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 someone realy ****** in your cornflakes didnt they nice avitatar by the way, looks like mine if you think about it you already conform to the big brother syndrome, credit card, driver licence health card , GPS systems are fitted to vehicles, mine has one hope it stop the theif who'd like to steal it , CCTV's are on street corners, they caught the baffoons who ****** on the war memorial the other day , they are now being prosecuted , having people stopped in the street at 2 in the morning by cops, nothing to hide nothing to worry about then , just hope the guys they dont stop arent the ones scoping out your place for a turnover , i guess it depends on your outlook in life, i personaly dont agree with all the laws and reg's but, having been stopped last weekend for driving within my vehicles top speed range an officer said it was above the legal one so $150, oh well "you break it you pay for it right " should have turned on the radar finder Martin Martin , a lighthearted responce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 I typed a big response to this, then read it back to myself. I sounded like one of those crazy people who argue with themselves in the high street, and shout at bins. I agree completely, its a lot worse than most people think already. There is so much about surveilance I would love to share with you all, but we are back to the nutty feller with one shoe screaming at a lampost The worst thing about it all, is its just about unavoidable. We watch films about orwellian society and laugh, or end up thinking "well, at least its not like that". It is, most people just don't know it. Last engineer, I hear what you say about "nothing to hide, nothing to worry about". Fundamentally I disagree with my right to do as I please being taken away from me. Watching the memorial services for the 7/7 attacks saddened me as I knew some of the people injured and hurt by the bombings. The thing that saddened me most was a comment made by a bbc newsreader, commenting on the silences being observed, he said "the terrorists wanted to disrupt our way of life, and today we show they have not succeeded" Ballacks they didn't. Security everywhere, more cameras than ever. Id cards being rushed through parliment as well as draconian powers to allow the detention and removal of civil liberties of anyone without reason. I know people still to **** scared to use the tube for fear it will happen again. Innocent people are being shot on the basis of shonky intelligence, lets not forget it was also shonky intel that got us invading Iraq. Our lads getting maimed and killed daily. Soldiers being prosecuted for murder? ***? All this to defend our "freedom" - don't make me laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il cacciatore Posted July 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 I see what you say about "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." That is based on you are guilty until you are proven innocent. It is based on the presumption that you are guilty so you need to prove that your innocent. If you dont prove your innocent then you are guilty. Either way, you are guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 My braine hurtz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il cacciatore Posted July 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Criminal law in the UK and much of the western 'free' world is based on "innocent until proven guilty". But the government have introduced all this survailance technology, laws infringing on civil liberty etc etc etc. with the catchphrase "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" (which translates into "The innocent have nothing to fear") This is contradictory to the very fabric of our society. If the police want to search your home and say "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" - which has became an acceptable reason through normalisation. They have made the presumption you are guilty of something or else they would not be searching your home. So you need to prove your innocence. If you dont because you say "I have my right to privacy" (see below) then you are guilty because you are not wishing to prove your innocence - you have something to hide. Either way, it is a contradiction on our freedom. The law is demanding that you prove something that they have no legal right of demanding because you are innocent until proven guilty and you dont have to incriminate yourself. This compounded by the right to privacy. The univeral declaration of human rights states: "No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks." This is also another barrier to the very statement "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear". You can hide whatever you want as you have the right to privacy. These laws were established to guarantee people of freedom from state control and fare trail because government cannot be trusted with ultimate power as government is only interested in establishing and perpetuating their own power. Its run by humans after all. That phrase should be: If you have nothing to hide you have everything to fear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browningstalker10g Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 have you ever considered becoming a lawyer?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il cacciatore Posted July 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 What good would that do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jonrms Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 it would do tons of good for your wallet..... apart from that nothing...lol I totally agree with you . I feel that we are not free at all by far! the average person is captured on cctv footage over 200 per day.. ***. I totally dis approve of the new system of gps... I feel that is a rubbish idea and will only lead to more problems than its worth.. ie the police will be able to issue you a ticket just because they know your speed your traveling etc... I have nothing to worry about apart from the odd speeding etc... but I find it silly that we call brittian / america a free country... when clearly both arnt. I have to give america credit on this subject now that I mentioned my home land... because they are still fighting for freedom... ie speed camera etc... and the only ones they seem to be loosing out on is the ones that make sure you dont jump a traffic light.... America fights for everthing.... something that (please dont yell at me for this one...) but brittian doesnt seem to fight for anymore. I noticed that the brittish people will just moan and gripe a little bit about something and then nothing happens... apart from it might make the news a little bit...... when the fuel crisis was on who honestly took notice..... brittish people/truckers and farmers took a big stance but still nothing happened.... We got to fight for a rights..... and no not to party.. but to be free...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Problem with that though, is that you end up battling with the police / army as instruments of government. The cops / army don't get a say, so any kind of action you take on something like this will invariably fail becuase most people have no beef with the cops or the army and know they are only doing as they are told. The only thing this goverment listen to is money, hit them in the pocket and they will sharp listen to you. Otherwise you are wasting your time. The electoral system is a shambles and is totally corrupt, no chance of you ever getting your point across with a vote. Widespread scandal and corruption everywhere. Fatcat ****ers taking disproportionate sums of money out of companies who are failing to meet the most basic targets. The NHS spending millions and millions on IT infrastructure improvements nobody actually wants, let alone needs. The government stands with its back turned as foreign companies buy up British firms and raid the pension funds. Bosses of rail companies are proven to be neglecting safety, are responsible for deaths yet no charges of corporate manslaughter are brought. If you were the boss of a water company who knew if you missed your targets for stopping leaks you would be out of a job, you would make sure the right levels of investment went into doing it. Yet the way it is now, you won't be out of a job, you can turn in massive profits with the hiked prices and all the money you saved not fixing the leaks and get a 1m bonus. The government sits and applauds this behaviour becuase these people are wealthy, pay a lot of tax and make contributions to party funds. The customer pays more tax on the bill and the government rakes it in both ways. Nobody is accountable, there is no way to get your opinion accross, yet if you mention it all you have is a vote - when the choise is BAD or WORSE is that a choice? The country has been going to **** for a while now, it just seems to be accelerating of late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il cacciatore Posted July 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I think thats why youll find emigration is at an all time high. To mainly New Zealand and Canada (America is too difficult so most people just dont bother trying) People know that nothing will ever change her and are bailing out to countries that still have some sort of freedom and governments that still have some sort of sence. Ever seen Canada or NZ invading any other country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul in North Lincs. Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 il Cacciator for Priminister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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