Elite Trigger Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 what are your opinions on these two rifles?? how do they handle?? are they known for any probs? leaking, jamming im buying a pcp and dont want to make the wrong choice am after something small or something that can be stripped like the above two cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davrian Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hi mate. I've had the Gunpower Stealth 2000 .177 for over 2 years now I think! grouping hasnt moved or changed in that time still spot on (as long as I stick to Daystate FT, Webley Lazadomes ect) 5p groups at 30 yards no probs. I was thinking I might like a multi shot (still look at them) but last bunny shoot I did, I hit 15 bunnies from the one spot ranging from about 15 to 35 yards and they never clocked me loading and cocking so I figure why change? The down side for some of this style rifle is it doesnt feel like any other rifle to handle! so the lack of cheek piece can mean you dont hold the rifle in the same place every time! The trick is to make sure your crosshair is vertical and horizontal so you know you have the rifle up right each time, I think from memory the S16 is better in the recpect as the bottle is positioned lower and the butt pad fits the shoulder better, the butt pad on the Stealth isnt great but as there's no recoil it hardly matters. The Logun S16 is also a cracking rifle I think, I tried one in .22 before buying the Stealth and got all 16 shots under a 2p at 27 yards not bad for the only 16 shots I fired through one! The S16 is rather heavy though and the cocking mech is stiff and makes it easy to load 2 pellets by accident! I've heard of seals going on the S16 which require a strip down to fix, never heard any such report on the Stealth? Early Stealths got a bad reputation due to poor build quality but I've heard no such reports of the 2000 (current) model. The take down feature is great for me as I ride a motorcycle to my permissions so easy to lock the rifle in the top box! couldn't do that with many others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davrian Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Fill in more of your profile mate! Whereabouts are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 there are only a couple of rifles i dont recomend to any one at the club, gun power rifles and logun rifles (with the exception of the MK2). The majority of them are so full of problems you will spend more time tinkering about with them (in the cse of gunpower), or sending them back to get them fixed (with logun). For the price of these two rifles there are much better choices out there. ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elite Trigger Posted July 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Fill in more of your profile mate! Whereabouts are you? hiya rob, that is a very gd reply, thanks.... i am dieing to buy a stealth but i have heard people saying that they leak bad and the rifles tophat works loose, am after a rifle that can strip down and the s16 and stealth would be perfect, but i dont want to buy something an then have to spend more cash on it so it works, i just want to pick it up and shoot it.... have you had any probs with the tophat on your stealth, can you add anything here mate? i am about to buy a pcp and really dont want to make the wrong choice.... if i went fot the s16 i would be getting it from jsr, the unshrouded model, i would think this is the newer mk am i rite? thanks roblade ps Davrian i will fill my profile in thanks mate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertyandlivelihood Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I have got a Logun S-16 mk1 and although there have been many reports on the seals blowing, I have been one of the lucky ones without any problems!! This may be down to the fact that I have never fully charged the bottle on it ( dont have access to a 300bar canister ). The gun is fairly heavy but I find it is a good gun and nothing has gone wrong in the year I have had it. the cocking mech. may seem stiff but as its quite strong you just have to put some effort into pushing it back into place. Reports are that for the mk2 all that changed was they put different seals on and the shrouded barell. I got the mk1 from JSR and cant complain!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P03 Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 The unshrouded S16 is the Mk1 the shrouded is the Mk2. I have owned a Mk2 for a while now and only had 1 small problem a leaking cylinder seal....it was fixed in two minutes and the rifle has been as good as gold since. The Mk1 did have a lot of problems with air leaks but most (that's most NOT all before all you S16 haters start on me ) could be put down to user error. If you get an S16 I would suggest you get a shrouded Mk2 and read the manual. P03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronttuk Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 i bought an s-16 when they first came out after 3 weeks the barrel came out i phoned logun the said do this do that i replied ******** send me a new gun which they did i returned my old 1 the new gun was fine and a few weeks later the postman knocked on the door gave me a parcel and walked off puzzled i opend the parcel to find my old gun returned in working order!! i sold it to a friend and had £300 in my pocket and my three week old new s-16. about three months later the new s-16 leaked as soon as it was filled i rang simmonds (logun) to complain again they said do this do that again i told them where to go and what i thought of the s-16 they agreed to send me a revised mk1-a model so i sent the leaky s-16 back and recieved my 3rd s-16 the same day. about three weeks later the postman knocked on left me another package my 2nd s-16 all repaired ready to go so i sold it again for £350!! ive had the mk1-a s-16 for nearly two years the only problem ive had with it is the little seal that goes in the 1st part or the barrel came out i phone logun they got a service engineer to ring me back he talked me through the strip down and rebuild in every detail,great service and since then ive never had any problems , i know logun dont have the best name in the world but i think they do have the bewst customer service in the world and proberly a very slack internal repair system that allowes you to get a new rifle with every returned rifle !!! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shootist Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 The unshrouded S16 is the Mk1 the shrouded is the Mk2. Not quite correct and a common misunderstanding... The MK1 S-16 was a pump action (like a shotgun) with a moveable forend that cocked the rifle. The MK2 had a redesigned cocking action and introduced the side bolt cocking that all the later S-16's sport. This is un shrouded. (This is the one being sold of cheap by JSR) The S-16S is based on the MK2 action but has a number of improvements and minor design changes to resolve many of the rifles problems (almost a Mk3). A shrouded barrel / silencer was added on this model. The S-16S isnt a bad rifle, heavy (all the S-16's are) and a bit unweildy... not sure what size human being it was designed around ! But it wasn't an average human ! Shoots reliably once you get used to the cocking mechanism and is accurate. If your going to have an S-16 then the S-16S is the one to have. As to the other rifle... The Stealth... These are really high power US rifles and the UK importer 'bodges' them down to 12 ft lb ... I say bodges as they use the simplest and cheapest methods to get the power down. Leaving the rifle. although legal, shooting pretty horribly. Look to spending another 100 quid on top to get someone to fit decent parts / fettle it to get it shooting sweetly at 12 ft lb I'd still recommend conventional rifles.. Daystate.. Air Arms etc over any of the above. Regards Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davrian Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Funny how when Stealths are mentioned you get people saying Oooo I've heard bad things about those! As I said I've had mine for some time now 2 years or more I think! The problems as I understand it were with the earlier version with the cheaper barrel and poor QC I have NEVER heard a bad report from and actual owner of a Stealth 2000! just lots of people who have heard!...... If the worst that can happen is the top comes loose then why not locktite the locking screws in? and if the top hat has come loose it means the user hasn't noticed that not one but two grub screws have come undone! you can see at least one of these every time you cock it! The first time I "fiddled" with my Stealth was last night! I changed the scope from a Tasco 3-9x56 to Simmons Deer Field 3-9x50 then zeroed it in, I don't expect to have to touch it again now for another 2 years! and before anyone asks how much I use it, I'm getting through tins of pellets at the moment! (Anyone know somewhere in Somerset that still has Webley Lazadomes? ) I would also recommend other rifles I'm not totally biased to the Stealth, its just great for what it does for those of us who like or need a take down. The Air Arms S410 is now available as a TDR! thats got to be a cracking rifle but its pricey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elite Trigger Posted July 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Funny how when Stealths are mentioned you get people saying Oooo I've heard bad things about those! As I said I've had mine for some time now 2 years or more I think! The problems as I understand it were with the earlier version with the cheaper barrel and poor QC I have NEVER heard a bad report from and actual owner of a Stealth 2000! just lots of people who have heard!...... If the worst that can happen is the top comes loose then why not locktite the locking screws in? and if the top hat has come loose it means the user hasn't noticed that not one but two grub screws have come undone! you can see at least one of these every time you cock it! The first time I "fiddled" with my Stealth was last night! I changed the scope from a Tasco 3-9x56 to Simmons Deer Field 3-9x50 then zeroed it in, I don't expect to have to touch it again now for another 2 years! and before anyone asks how much I use it, I'm getting through tins of pellets at the moment! (Anyone know somewhere in Somerset that still has Webley Lazadomes? :unsure: ) I would also recommend other rifles I'm not totally biased to the Stealth, its just great for what it does for those of us who like or need a take down. The Air Arms S410 is now available as a TDR! thats got to be a cracking rifle but its pricey! interesting, how easy does the tophat come loose?? how many shots do you get from yours? and how far do you charge the bottle upto until you find your sweetspot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Tony, interesting post on the S-16 versions, I have only met one other person who refers to the S-16S as the Mk3. However, I used to own the S-16 unshrouded version and as far as my many conversations with Logun service were concerned it was a Mk1 and the shrouded model the Mk2. Have you any literature on the pump action model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shootist Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Tony, interesting post on the S-16 versions, I have only met one other person who refers to the S-16S as the Mk3. Have you any literature on the pump action model? S-16S is still a Mk2 action just with many minor design improvements over the earlier Mk2 un shrouded. The original Mk1 pump action cocking S-16 was never sold in the uk in any numbers although it was advertised here... I can recall JSR ads for it 'coming soon'. Clearly describing it as pump action cocking. Apparently the 'powers that be' had a word with Logun over some legal technicality and Logun redesigned the cocking action to sidebolt for the MK2 and then re-launched it in the UK. (The re-design from forend pump action to side bolt probably accounts for the S-16 unique 'straight back and forward' bolt) I can definitely recall reading a pre launch review in one of the airgun rags showing the pump action cocking Mk1. As to which mag / date ... asking a lot after 4 years ! If you look at some of the very early advertising pictures 2001 / 2002 you can see the pic doesnt look quite right as there's a sliver of daylight between the forend and action... ie it's a pic of the pump version. Slightly later ads 2002 / 2003 show the unshrouded S-16 along with the description... new improved S-16... or New Mk2 S-16 or new improved bolt cocking S-16 yet still pre-dating the shrouded S-16S by a year or two ! And yes I have owned an S16... albeit one I won... Shot ok but not really for me so sold it. Regards Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davrian Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 interesting, how easy does the tophat come loose?? how many shots do you get from yours? and how far do you charge the bottle upto until you find your sweetspot As I said I've not had to fiddle with mine! In two years as the working rifle the top hat has not yet come loose! If it came loose now how could I complain? you expect some maintenance on anything mechanical! My 300bar diving cylinder is now down to about 180bar this makes for about 100 very sweet shots I've started shooting targets over 40 yards mainly and at this range you notice the pellets swirl and slow down a bit after 100ish shots (I don't count just rough guess from how empty the pellet tins looking! or think how many shots per card and how many cards) However if I then go back to 25 yards its still quite respectable! I think the sweet spot is probably not as noticable in .22? I really believe this rifle (Stealth 2000) is far better than its reputation and the reputation stems from the early model (Stealth). In its deffence the rifle is the concept of the English man you can buy it direct through at Gun Power limited (01233 642357) he was helped with the design by an American friend of his who makes the extrusion for the main body of the rifle, this is the only component to come from the states! the rifle is not imported through Gun Power as stated previously! the barrels come direct from Walther in Germany and all other components are sourced localy. The gun is not "bodged" to 12ft lbs the top hat valve is set to it! combined with a lighter spring for the UK market, this is hardly any different to any other rifle being set for the UK market! All of this can be confirmed by ringing and speaking direct, ask him how long the warranty is and get back to me :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shootist Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 The gun is not "bodged" to 12ft lbs the top hat valve is set to it! combined with a lighter spring for the UK market, this is hardly any different to any other rifle being set for the UK market! Cobblers... The current stealths are.... They have an extra heavy hammer and an extra heavy hammer spring (The usual ploy to get extra power out of an older one) combined with a restrictor tube and a pin hole in the bottle valve to starve the gun of air. This results in a setup that barely reaches 12 ft lb with the top hat adjusted to max. (top hats are currently locktited on anyway so cant be adjusted easily) This results in a gun thats over sprung and over hammer weighted but restricted in air... stops the hooligans easily winding the power up but results in a gun thats an inconsistant dog to shoot. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 of 5 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 The unshrouded S16 and Stealths are amongst the worst guns about. Unreliable and/or innacurate. The stealth is also made to a price and it shows. As Roblade says they are not guns I'd recommend to anyone either. The pump action S16 never made it past prototype as the police confiscated it with it being a section5 so can hardly be called a Mk1! - Jim Hogan himself told me that. The Mk1 S16 had a thin blade for the bolt catch and removed skin well. The Mk1.5 had a wider bolt catch and some other mods. The shrouded is generally refered to as the Mk2 and is apparently a better gun though the balance is still lousy and it has a reach designed for a Gibbon. If it fits you you have seriously LONG arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elite Trigger Posted July 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 The unshrouded S16 and Stealths are amongst the worst guns about. Unreliable and/or innacurate. The stealth is also made to a price and it shows. As Roblade says they are not guns I'd recommend to anyone either.The pump action S16 never made it past prototype as the police confiscated it with it being a section5 so can hardly be called a Mk1! - Jim Hogan himself told me that. The Mk1 S16 had a thin blade for the bolt catch and removed skin well. The Mk1.5 had a wider bolt catch and some other mods. The shrouded is generally refered to as the Mk2 and is apparently a better gun though the balance is still lousy and it has a reach designed for a Gibbon. If it fits you you have seriously LONG arms. Loads of people that own the stealth 2000 mk2 say that the reason that they have a bad name is because the mk1 was ridled with problems when it first came out.... most rifles are when they first hit the market, thats why you give the manufactor a chance to iron things out by giving the rifle a good few months before you commit to buying it.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davrian Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 The end of the day if you want or need a take down rifle what are your options? Stealth 2000, S16 or AA S410 TDR? I know if I was choosing over again with a money no object situation I'd choose the Air Arms. They can slag off the Stealth all they like but when I read the good comments on other rifles its things like '1/2 inch group at 30 yards' and 'Extra strong mints at 50 yards!' ect ect I know my Stealth is capable of all the same! so how someone can say its 'an inconsistent dog to shoot' is a bit strange! Maybe that's just the opinion of someone who just doesn't like them? It has its limitations! it only has a 12" barrel, I'd like the hammer to be lighter and quieter, I know others would like more adjustment on the trigger. But then what riffle is perfect for everyone? If you were local you'd be welcome to come and have a go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shootist Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 so how someone can say its 'an inconsistent dog to shoot' is a bit strange! Maybe that's just the opinion of someone who just doesn't like them? No, it's just I have shot well sorted ones with light hammers and springs, valves sorted etc... They shoot very sweetly then. Out of the box they are very inconsistant due to the cludged way they are setup to meet the tamper proof requirement for 12 ft lb guns Best buy a second hand stealth, if your determined to have one, and spend £100 getting it fettled than buy a new one... you get a better gun then. Better still is buy something other than a stealth or S16... Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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