mark35gun Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Can I say on here or will that infringe some rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted June 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Can I say on here or will that infringe some rules? Not that I'm aware of, but it might be best to check with a moderator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark35gun Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Not that I'm aware of, but it might be best to check with a moderator? Yes probably wise but if you look at my profile it wouldn't be difficult to find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 2 gunshops near me, one is reasonable, the other used to charge silly prices for everything. The reasonable shop charged about £15 (this was the price a year ago when I last used them) for an RFD transfer, the second shop used to charge £40!!! The second shop has now closed down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicehorn Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Both seem fair, thanks for taking the time to explain how much you charge and little of the reasoning behind it Dicehorn, what do you charge when you are the receiving RFD? To tell you the truth Blunder we have never made a charge - we believe in goodwill paying dividends for the future - we are not a shop with supporting overheaads but a repair business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danimal Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 blunderbuss the costs of running a shop are horrendous buddy, i wouldnt charge a good/regular customer anything however transfers are almost always customers you only ever see when they are doing a transfer, and they buy little to nothing else the rest of the year. imo £25 is reasonable and its for the customer to decide if they would rather pay it or collect guns in person Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) To tell you the truth Blunder we have never made a charge - we believe in goodwill paying dividends for the future - we are not a shop with supporting overheaads but a repair business. see, to me that make sense. if the receiving shop was doing the paperwork for cost and not a profit making exercising scam then i would spend hell of a lot more money with then for thinking they where doing me a favour. If they scratch my back then i'll scratch theirs and send people their way too. Edited June 16, 2012 by activeviii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 TBH, it's added that much to what appeared to be a second hand bargain, that I'd have nearly been better buying new I've not done this before, is this par for the course - or have I been had? It feels like a **** taking scam from where I'm sat :( So, you buy something from elsewhere, expect a dealer you possibly don't even know to take delivery on your behalf at very short notice and without clearing it with him first and STILL have the temerity to suggest that dealers are running some sort of scam!!!!! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 I'm afraid that's the way it works with RFD transfers. It's not a cheap hobby posting guns unless you're getting a really good deal. I've never understood why moderators need to be sent this way. You can post the exact same thing off ticket for an air rifle via Royal Mail! Agreed. A lot of the time it just isn't worth it. Apart from the postage costs you are in situation of what to do if it goes wrong. When your shiny new gun blows up (ok not likely but other things can happen) you have to post it back to the selling dealer as it's nothing to do with the dealer who handed it to you. You should normally get your postage costs back but if the selling dealer starts arguing the toss with you it can turn into to a long and drawn out mess. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 It's a uncompetitive market so they can (and do) charge what they like, my local RFD charges £15 which I think is resonable for the amount of work involved. Complete rubbish. It's a very competitive market and there is no real shortage of RFD's. If RFD's were uncompetitive or runing a scam then they would just refuse to do transfers so you had to buy from them. Remember, you've just bought something from another RFD and are expecting a competitor to take delivery of it. Loads and loads of people use small gunshops as a shop window; they trott along to their local RFD have a fondle of their goods and then order from the Sportsman or York to save a few quid and expect their local guy to take delivery of it. J. I think (in fact know) that you will find that the sending rfd does have to inform FL Dept. They must tell FL of any item entered into the register UNLESS it comes from another RFD. Edd No they don't. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Ah I see. no worries. In that case, poacher, I am not wrong and if you like i will find a link to the relevant details. When recieving any firearm I (as an rfd) must notify my fld and enter it into the register. The only exception is if the item is rexieved from another RFD in which case it is only entered in my register and not notified to flo. Edd Is this a condition appended to your RFD as there is no requirement in law to do this? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Rfds do not have to inform the police every time you make an entry into the register, we do however have to notify when we sell or transfer a gun or moderator to a private individual, then both parties have to notify, RFD to RFD requires no notification, purchases from private individuals, would be responsible for notification to the police, not the RFD. There is no requirement to notify the police when disposing of a firearm to an RFD. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 I know you're an RFD, I've used your shop in Bristol a few times. What you say is of course true. That's exactly what I'll do in future because of that kind of "I'll charge what I like and there's nothing you can do about it, so tough" attitude I'll also make a point of not buying guns or anything else from any dealers who are so contemptuous of their customers. Thankfully there are still one or two around who either levy more reasonable charges or at least polite and try to offer some reasoned justification for their £25 fee, without the "if you don't like it tough" comments. It's interesting to see the comments from the several dealers on this thread. I've a lot more respect for those who try to explain why they feel it's fair to charge £25 (or whatever), than those who make flippant comments which betray a contempt for those who pay their wages. I'm no MBA, but that doesn't strike me as the best business strategy? And what of the 'customers' who simply decide to tell an RFD they have something arriving and still expect them to do it for next to nothing? That's somewhat contemptuous, is it not? Especially as they probably didn't ask the delaer in question if he had a similar item in stock. What's the problem with charging £25? It's nothing really and most of the time the purchaser is only doing it because it's cheaper than driving to pick it up. The RFD has to take delivery of it (which takes time), unpack it (which takes time), check that he's actually been sent the correct item (which takes time), enter it onto the register (which takes time), very often he has to get in touch with the sending RFD because he hasn't sent a copy of his RFD, or any details of the customer (which takes time and is a pain in the ****), then he has to enter it onto the customers ticket (which takes ages because tit of a customer is usually very keen to brag about what a brilliant deal he's got with it and how it's best gun that's ever been made and what a knob the guy was for selling it for nowt, etc, etc, etc), he then has to notify the police by recorded delivery (which takes time and costs money) and if all of that isn't enough the RFD will get asked to fiddle about putting something right on it that the customer didn't think of checking before he bouught it or, worse, has to store it because said customer doesn't have the correct authority to acquirte it! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 see, to me that make sense. if the receiving shop was doing the paperwork for cost and not a profit making exercising scam then i would spend hell of a lot more money with then for thinking they where doing me a favour. If they scratch my back then i'll scratch theirs and send people their way too. How on earth is it a 'scam' to charge a person for doing some work for them? The guy has just bought a gun from someone else and you expect another RFD to do something for nothing! How many other business can you think of that do things for people at a price which only covers costs??? That's not business, it's charity and there would be no dealers around if they conducted business that way. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 What's the problem with charging £25? It's nothing really and most of the time the purchaser is only doing it because it's cheaper than driving to pick it up. The RFD has to take delivery of it (which takes time), unpack it (which takes time), check that he's actually been sent the correct item (which takes time), enter it onto the register (which takes time), very often he has to get in touch with the sending RFD because he hasn't sent a copy of his RFD, or any details of the customer (which takes time and is a pain in the ****), then he has to enter it onto the customers ticket (which takes ages because tit of a customer is usually very keen to brag about what a brilliant deal he's got with it and how it's best gun that's ever been made and what a knob the guy was for selling it for nowt, etc, etc, etc), he then has to notify the police by recorded delivery (which takes time and costs money) and if all of that isn't enough the RFD will get asked to fiddle about putting something right on it that the customer didn't think of checking before he bouught it or, worse, has to store it because said customer doesn't have the correct authority to acquirte it! J. Every RFD I have ever dealt with has never opened the package to check any thing. All they do is sign for it when the courier places it on the counter, enter details on their register, phone the customer to tell them its arrived, then sign the customers ticket. Notify the FLO via E-mail. Total, no more than 60seconds work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) Every RFD I have ever dealt with has never opened the package to check any thing. All they do is sign for it when the courier places it on the counter, enter details on their register, phone the customer to tell them its arrived, then sign the customers ticket. Notify the FLO via E-mail. Total, no more than 60seconds work. Then they aren't doing it right. How can they enter it on the register if they haven't looked at the gun? You have no idea what's in the package. What if they've sent the wrong gun nor the number you have been told is on it is wrong? If you enter it in the register incorrectly then you committ an offence for which you could lose your RFD! You will then enter it on to someones cert wrongly which is an offence and they are in possession of a gun they have no authority for. Many times you don't even know where the package has come from until you open it. A case in point and a true story; we had a semi-auto shotgun arrive for a chap. Chap turns up with his SGC. We could have done as you suggest and simply handed him the package and filled in his ticket. Problem was that it was a sec.1 gun which we didn't (and couldn't) have known without opening it. Moreover - he didn't even know it was a sec.1!!! Also, notifying by email is not (yet) legal. It is a requirement that it is done by recorded delivery. Besides all of that - so what if it's only 60 seconds work (which it never is, by the way)? It's still work you are doing for someone so that they can get something they didn't buy from you and time that is being taken up when you could be doing something else - like selling your own stock, for example. J. Edited June 17, 2012 by JonathanL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) So, you buy something from elsewhere, expect a dealer you possibly don't even know to take delivery on your behalf at very short notice and without clearing it with him first and STILL have the temerity to suggest that dealers are running some sort of scam!!!!! J. And what of the 'customers' who simply decide to tell an RFD they have something arriving and still expect them to do it for next to nothing? That's somewhat contemptuous, is it not? Especially as they probably didn't ask the delaer in question if he had a similar item in stock. What's the problem with charging £25? A lot of probablys, possiblys and other incorrect assumptions in your posts. And congratulations on making seven consecutive posts on a thread, in each of which you contradict or rubbish someone else. That must be some kind of PW record! My point is simply this. If a sending dealer, who has as much paperwork to do as the receiving dealer PLUS has to bear the courier costs only charges £15, how is it fair for the receiving dealer, who has no courier charges to charge £25? Secondly I can live with the £25 if someone politely explains why he needs to charge it, when he says "because I can so tough" or words to that effect, it puts my back up Edited June 17, 2012 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 A lot of probablys, possiblys and other incorrect assumptions in your posts. And congratulations on making seven consecutive posts on a thread, in each of which you contradict or rubbish someone else. That must be some kind of PW record! Well, you said yourself that you bought the thing and then informed a local RFD that it was coming so in your case it's true. You didn't even ask the RFD if he would handle it for you - the RFD is not duty bound to take it you know. What if he'd said no to you? What difference does it make how many posts I make - is there some sort of limit? Everything thing I've said is for a reson and is true. My point is simply this. If a sending dealer, who has as much paperwork to do as the receiving dealer PLUS has to bear the courier costs only charges £15, how is it fair for the receiving dealer, who has no courier charges to charge £25? Secondly I can live with the £25 if someone politely explains why he needs to charge it, when he says "because I can so tough" or words to that effect, it puts my back up Do you enquire of the reasons behind the pricing for everything you ever buy? Do you regularly grill Tesco as to why they price their beans is 2p more than Morrisons as surely they have the same costs? It's not about bare cost. No one on earth prices their products purely based on what it costs them. They build in a profit margin - this is how business wortks and if they didn't they wouldn't have a business. The RFD is doing work for you. He is in business to turn a profit and his fees are his fees. You haven't bought the gun off him and you are wanting him to do the job of receiving it on your behalf and transferring it to you. Why do you expect him to give chapter and verse as to how he sets his fees. If you don't like the way he does business then use someone else. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 A lot of probablys, possiblys and other incorrect assumptions in your posts. And congratulations on making seven consecutive posts on a thread, in each of which you contradict or rubbish someone else. That must be some kind of PW record! Well, you said yourself that you bought the thing and then informed a local RFD that it was coming so in your case it's true. You didn't even ask the RFD if he would handle it for you - the RFD is not duty bound to take it you know. What if he'd said no to you? What difference does it make how many posts I make - is there some sort of limit? Everything thing I've said is for a reson and is true. My point is simply this. If a sending dealer, who has as much paperwork to do as the receiving dealer PLUS has to bear the courier costs only charges £15, how is it fair for the receiving dealer, who has no courier charges to charge £25? Secondly I can live with the £25 if someone politely explains why he needs to charge it, when he says "because I can so tough" or words to that effect, it puts my back up Do you enquire of the reasons behind the pricing for everything you ever buy? Do you regularly grill Tesco as to why they price their beans is 2p more than Morrisons as surely they have the same costs? Did you ask the selling dealer about how he arrived at the price of the gun in the first place? It's not about bare cost. No one on earth prices their products purely based on what it costs them. They build in a profit margin - this is how business wortks and if they didn't they wouldn't have a business. The RFD is doing work for you. He is in business to turn a profit and his fees are his fees. You haven't bought the gun off him and you are wanting him to do the job of receiving it on your behalf and transferring it to you. Why do you expect him to give chapter and verse as to how he sets his fees. If you don't like the way he does business then use someone else. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Is this the five minute argument or the full half hour? Do you know what, I've just come back from a pleasant morning's shooting with some mates, the sun is shining at long last. I have a cold beer in my hand and my son is cooking dinner for me for Father's day. So I'm in too good a mood to be ***** arguing the toss over this. I'm sure there are some other threads for you to be "correct" all over. Have a nice day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Then they aren't doing it right. How can they enter it on the register if they haven't looked at the gun? You have no idea what's in the package. What if they've sent the wrong gun nor the number you have been told is on it is wrong? If you enter it in the register incorrectly then you committ an offence for which you could lose your RFD! You will then enter it on to someones cert wrongly which is an offence and they are in possession of a gun they have no authority for. Many times you don't even know where the package has come from until you open it. A case in point and a true story; we had a semi-auto shotgun arrive for a chap. Chap turns up with his SGC. We could have done as you suggest and simply handed him the package and filled in his ticket. Problem was that it was a sec.1 gun which we didn't (and couldn't) have known without opening it. Moreover - he didn't even know it was a sec.1!!! Also, notifying by email is not (yet) legal. It is a requirement that it is done by recorded delivery. Besides all of that - so what if it's only 60 seconds work (which it never is, by the way)? It's still work you are doing for someone so that they can get something they didn't buy from you and time that is being taken up when you could be doing something else - like selling your own stock, for example. J. If they are not doing it right, thats down to them. If the sending RFD is not competent enough to send the correct gun, thats their problem, send it back! Iv never bought a gun with out first phoning the seller to confirm all of the advertised details and for them to answer any possible questions Iv had. Common scence really? The details of the guns have been checked and confirmed when I went to the shop, opened the packaging (which has always been a plastic carry case) and checked the gun over. The paper work was then completed. Hampshire police accept notification of a gun transfer via E-mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Blunder, What Mod did you get in the end? was it for the 6.5? Im in to much of a good mood today to let people get me arguing.lmao. but i really must dangle the maggot more often it would seam. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Blunder, What Mod did you get in the end? was it for the 6.5? Im in to much of a good mood today to let people get me arguing.lmao. but i really must dangle the maggot more often it would seam. :lol: Just seen your first buck post Phil, congratulations mate you must be well chuffed Yep, for the 6.5, ASE Jet Z Compact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Johnathanl, your first post regarding my comments says that i am wrong in saying that i have to inform the flo/police of each firearm entered into my register. I can assure you that if i failed to inform of any acquisitions from private individuals then the excrement would surely hit the air circulating device! But what confuses me is that you then go on to contradict yourself in some of your many further posts on the subject by saying that the notification to police is part of what takes time and therefore justifies the cost. So which is it? Do i not have to inform my flo? (in which case is it ok to give them your name when they come to take my rfd?) Or do i carry on doing as my flo requires? Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Just seen your first buck post Phil, congratulations mate you must be well chuffed Yep, for the 6.5, ASE Jet Z Compact. very nice Dave. you have it cut now i take it. little bit gutted that the lackey wasn't there to drag for my. i had to carry the wee beastie for about 30 miles. well thats how it felt by the time i got to the truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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