wymberley Posted July 19, 2012 Report Share Posted July 19, 2012 Yes, the variables are many. Placement, std accuraccy, terminal bullet effects. at the end of the day OGW becomes bull. To look on extreames worked on Muzzle energy the 12 bore slug would be well capable of quite large game, yet take it out to 200 yds and i should rather have a .222 in my hands anyday. A 6mm 100grn deer bullet is a lot less likely to achieve a clean bang flop kill on a broadside on fox than say a .22 hornet with a 45 grn varmint bullet in my experiance also- 100grn tough bullets have a tendancy to pencil hole! - yet i bet it gets a bigger OGW than the little hornet "the theatre for which it was designed" yep agree 100% that has nothing to do with silly calculations does it? just general practical knoledge and experiance of what works and is likely to work I think our "real worlds" are not the same. I wouldn't dream of taking a slug out to 200 yards. Off hand can't think of anyone who might. Additionally, one of the criteria for cartridge selection is that the bullet design is appropriate to the quarry in question. So your 100gn 6mm deer bullet is not of the "real world" either if fox is your quarry. Come on, if you're going to criticise the guy, at least take a minute to understand what he's saying. With regard to "silly calculations", they're far from it in most instances: I think it's universally recognised that they're not to be blindly followed but validated in the field and they can put you in the ballpark, saving both time and money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I think our "real worlds" are not the same. I wouldn't dream of taking a slug out to 200 yards. Off hand can't think of anyone who might. Additionally, one of the criteria for cartridge selection is that the bullet design is appropriate to the quarry in question. So your 100gn 6mm deer bullet is not of the "real world" either if fox is your quarry. Come on, if you're going to criticise the guy, at least take a minute to understand what he's saying. With regard to "silly calculations", they're far from it in most instances: I think it's universally recognised that they're not to be blindly followed but validated in the field and they can put you in the ballpark, saving both time and money. i think your mis understanding what i am saying here. Sure it has its uses and yes nobody would use a slug at 200yds. My point is what is appropriate to use can never be decided by a chart only circumstances can dictate. Circumstances could be the shooters skill level, the range even the previaling conditions. If you look at our deer act covering calibres it don't cover Red stags with .222 and i bet the OGW don't include them either, yet one of the biggest culls of all time was carried out with .222's the rifle of choice for it. "optimum" well it was for that job, in those hands under those conditions the teams faced The very word "optimum" means to me best, not maximum though i recon over half of us read it as a maximum recomendation from the very fact its on a chart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 The very word "optimum" means to me best, not maximum though i recon over half of us read it as a maximum recomendation from the very fact its on a chart. Yep, agree with the first point and as it's more than likely true, have to agree with the second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Not reloading then really is 222/223/204. All will do a nice job out to 250 yards or a bit more in good conditions. If you want to get into reloading then there are some lovely short/mid range wildcats such as 20 Vartarg. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Fox up a tramline, with birds in a pen, that must have been with standing crop so 10 yards or less. Had I lost 75 then I would wonder what my electric fencers were doing !!. Would I take the shot, doubt it. Set up a bait and wait over it at first or last light. I use Gallager electric fencer units around ALL my pens, including small Partridge release sights, pheasant pen netting is dug in on most pens as well to stop digging under. Never had a fox in a pheasant pen yet, touch wood and I have been rearing birds for 40 years. I did loose 10 parts one night maybe 10 years ago when the battery on the fencer failed though, he dug under a tempory release shelter. Waiting over a body the next evening sorted that one. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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