SniperCWF Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) I am trying (and failing!) to save up to buy my first shotgun. I am a very occasional shooter, and haven't been for a few years, but I have an air rifle which has seen a bit of action in the field. I have my heart set on a camo semi auto 12g, with a view to doing some rough shooting, which I have some occasional permission for, and perhaps the odd daywildfowling in the future, once I find someone to go with. I am not interested in doing any driven shooting, or organised game days. Based on this I think a multi-tasking single gun is the way forward, and pref. 3.5" chamber multi choke so I can fire any load. The problem is that probably half of my shooting will probably be on clays. What kind of reception would I get at the clay ground with a camo semi auto? I am experienced with safe weapons handling, having done plenty of small bore and assault rifle range shooting. Edited October 29, 2012 by SniperCWF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tod Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 what kind of auto are you thinking of, as an occasional shooter do you want to spend upwards of 800 quid on a second hand beretta extrema or benelli to get 3.5" chambers which in my opinion are 2 of the best all round guns you can get wether your shooting geese on the foreshore or doing a round of clays, or are you thinking of a hatsan which for half the money you get a new one but dont expect it to perform or last like the others mentioned, as for going to a clay ground with one, as long as you keep it in a sleeve between stands or have a device to show its empty dont worry what people think, if it were me for an all round gun id get a beretta or benelli in black as it will hold its value and wouldnt look out of place at a clay shoot where as youd struggle to give a hatsan away after a couple of years use, but its your money and your choice, like anything in life you get what you pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SniperCWF Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) what kind of auto are you thinking of, as an occasional shooter do you want to spend upwards of 800 quid on a second hand beretta extrema or benelli to get 3.5" chambers which in my opinion are 2 of the best all round guns you can get wether your shooting geese on the foreshore or doing a round of clays, or are you thinking of a hatsan which for half the money you get a new one but dont expect it to perform or last like the others mentioned, as for going to a clay ground with one, as long as you keep it in a sleeve between stands or have a device to show its empty dont worry what people think, if it were me for an all round gun id get a beretta or benelli in black as it will hold its value and wouldnt look out of place at a clay shoot where as youd struggle to give a hatsan away after a couple of years use, but its your money and your choice, like anything in life you get what you pay for. Cheers Tod, I hear ya on the black finish. I am wondering that myself, but I love the camo look. I actually crave a Baikal MP-153 in realtree, which is still available new, but a bit expensive considering the brand. I've only seen one come up second hand though (it was on here £450), and it was the other side of the country. I think £400ish is going to be my upper ceiling, and even then only after some bike parts I have for sale have gone. I'm struggling with the cash a bit, and I'm not worried too much on the resale, and while I like the Hatsans and Revos (which are much easier to find 2nd hand and one of my mates has one in black), I really would like the Baikal, unless I get lucky on a cheaper second hand Remmington/Beretta/Benelli. They use them extensively europe and USA, mainly for boar with solid slugs, but are very reliable and apparently better made than O/U and air rifle counterparts. I intend to have a sling on it, so do you think that plus a breach plug/flag is enough for walking around? Obviously I'd have a slip too, but just wondered if it really needs to be put away everytime I move? Edited October 29, 2012 by SniperCWF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman_l Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) Hi Sniper For my penny worth if the budget is a bit tight have a look at a Winchester SX2 (or SX3 if the budget will allow). They are Browning guns badged for Winchester and have a decent rep (I have one) and a reaonable re-sale value. On the matter of sleeving the gun or putting a flag in - its not necessary as long as you are not in sight of the public and of course on private land where you have permission. I do some rough shooting with mine and its always loaded with the saftey on held with the barell pointing skywards in preparation for any opprotunities. At clay shoots you do need to have the flag showing between stands when you are not shooting. Edited October 29, 2012 by rainman_l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 semi is fine for clays,safety is bit harder to be seen so be conscious of that.I guess camouflaged if you have to....your choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerettaSV10 Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Hi Sniper At clay shoots you do need to have the flag showing between stands when you are not shooting. Think some grounds insit that you should always put a safty flag / plug in before leaving the stand at their ground. If carrying a s/a out of a slip its a good idea to use a plug / flag as it assures others your gun is safer. Regarding the use of a camo at clay grounds both a friend and myself use camo s/a's and yes we do get comments about using camo guns, but its all done in good hearted micky taking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Some CPSA grounds will not allow a semi auto camo gun in a CPSA competition. My friend knows that to his cost, he put the camo gun in for a black synthetic, no problems. Only relevant if you wish to shoot CPSA competitions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SniperCWF Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Some CPSA grounds will not allow a semi auto camo gun in a CPSA competition. My friend knows that to his cost, he put the camo gun in for a black synthetic, no problems. Only relevant if you wish to shoot CPSA competitions Why do they discriminate against camo? Surely not for the sake of other competitors? Public perception? Any CPSA reps/management care to comment? I'm guessing it's the same way people who do "Practical Shotgun" insist it is definately not "Combat Shotgun" and is nothing to do with combat uh-huh. What difference does it make? ... joe public will kick up a fuss that they think they are training a militia force or summat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SniperCWF Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) Hi Sniper For my penny worth if the budget is a bit tight have a look at a Winchester SX2 (or SX3 if the budget will allow). They are Browning guns badged for Winchester and have a decent rep (I have one) and a reaonable re-sale value. On the matter of sleeving the gun or putting a flag in - its not necessary as long as you are not in sight of the public and of course on private land where you have permission. I do some rough shooting with mine and its always loaded with the saftey on held with the barell pointing skywards in preparation for any opprotunities. At clay shoots you do need to have the flag showing between stands when you are not shooting. Cheers Rainman, I'll check it out. DB shotguns are a very English, Spanish and Italian quirk I think. USA, Canada, etc all prefer semi autos and pumps, but that may be that people trust them a bit more than here, as they are brought up on semi auto rifles etc most of their lives and know how to be safe with them. I suppose the problem here is that you can get an SGC with perhaps no prior experience and buy and use a shotgun without any training on safe handling. edit - I've looked up the Winchester SX2 and it looks good. Great reviews too! Another to add to the shortlist! Thanks for the advice Edited October 29, 2012 by SniperCWF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaveli Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Why do they discriminate against camo? Surely not for the sake of other competitors? Public perception? Any CPSA reps/management care to comment? I'm guessing it's the same way people who do "Practical Shotgun" insist it is definately not "Combat Shotgun" and is nothing to do with combat uh-huh. What difference does it make? ... joe public will kick up a fuss that they think they are training a militia force or summat? Hmmmm. I'm not sure you aren't being hypocritical there. Practical shotgun has got nothing to do with combat. It's merely a timed shooting event with dynamic targets. The same goes for camo'd semi-auto shotguns. They're also nothing to do with combat. However, Joe Public associates camo with the military (and walts... :yp: ) so I can see why they're discouraged at public events - however misunderstood or inaccurate the perception is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerettaSV10 Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Some CPSA grounds will not allow a semi auto camo gun in a CPSA competition. My friend knows that to his cost, he put the camo gun in for a black synthetic, no problems. Only relevant if you wish to shoot CPSA competitions Yep was told this as well by some one who competes in CPSA competitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I gather from a friend who had one that the 3.5" Hatsan can have problems jamming when you try and cycle smaller ones such as 2.5s. But like anything it might well differ from gun to gun but could be worth bearing in mind. I'm of the personal opinion that a 2nd hand 'better' gun is, well, better than a new budget one. As to camo and all the rest, get the gun you want and sod everyone else. At clay grounds you're a paying customer like the rest and as long as you demonstrate clearly visible safety and conscientiousness then no bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SniperCWF Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I gather from a friend who had one that the 3.5" Hatsan can have problems jamming when you try and cycle smaller ones such as 2.5s. But like anything it might well differ from gun to gun but could be worth bearing in mind. I'm of the personal opinion that a 2nd hand 'better' gun is, well, better than a new budget one. As to camo and all the rest, get the gun you want and sod everyone else. At clay grounds you're a paying customer like the rest and as long as you demonstrate clearly visible safety and conscientiousness then no bother. I think this is what I was hoping to hear. I will get my dosh together and then get on looking for it. Cheers TBird. Hmmmm. I'm not sure you aren't being hypocritical there. Practical shotgun has got nothing to do with combat. It's merely a timed shooting event with dynamic targets. ....uh-huh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SniperCWF Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) The same goes for camo'd semi-auto shotguns. They're also nothing to do with combat. Well, hunting was the first to use camouflage at all, and the military on the most part don't camouflage weapons (except SF, Sniper Cadre, sometimes on ops etc), so in that case I think it is Joe Public's misguided perception. I don't, however care what they think, or what you are trying to imply they might think about the use of camouflage generally. As for the Practical Shotgun, I'll stick to my opinion.... ever seen CQB and/or "killing house" training? I don't see why the defensive reaction to that opinion? Edited October 29, 2012 by SniperCWF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Just don't leave a realtree camo shotgun leaning against a real tree, you may never see it again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaveli Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 As for the Practical Shotgun, I'll stick to my opinion.... ever seen CQB and/or "killing house" training? I don't see why the defensive reaction to that opinion? Yes actually - I've done it. Have you - or is this just the TV / movies / COD talking? I've also tried Practical Shotgun a few times. Have you? I'd guess not, so you're proving to be just as misguided as the people you're complaining about for not allow camo at CPSA events... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I did PSG once and practically **** myself. I got hit in the arm by a ricochet and the poor fella I was with stopped a 7.5 shot with his lower lip. Not a pretty sight. When he turned to me it looked like he'd applied loads of blood-red lipstick all of a sudden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaveli Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I did PSG once and practically **** myself. I got hit in the arm by a ricochet and the poor fella I was with stopped a 7.5 shot with his lower lip. Not a pretty sight. When he turned to me it looked like he'd applied loads of blood-red lipstick all of a sudden. Ouch! From what I understand, there should be minimum distances for each type of target / ammunition - it doesn't sound like that was being followed? I've been hit in the face with a ricochet - but by the time it hit me, it only had enough energy left to sting slightly (airsoft would have hurt more). Made me appreciate my safety glasses though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Hmm, I'm not entirely sure the minima guidelines were being followed actually. Still, I've given it a wide berth since! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SniperCWF Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Yes actually - I've done it. Have you - or is this just the TV / movies / COD talking? I've also tried Practical Shotgun a few times. Have you? I'd guess not, so you're proving to be just as misguided as the people you're complaining about for not allow camo at CPSA events... LOL wind your neck in. Why do people react like this? I've nothing to prove to you or anyone, and I shall not be attempting to. The point I made was in no way hypocritical as you suggested. The points to me are the same. CPSA don't want camo guns. Why? In case the public think it's in some way military. SO WHAT? Why in this country do we live in a state of fear of what the masses think? The very same as you (and other participants) reaction to commenting on the similarity between practical shotgun and combat / defensive shooting, and trying to force a "crowbar" seperation between the two. Does it matter? no. Camo guns - no problem. Same goes for shooting at human sillouttes - who cares? If everyone just enjoyed their chosen hobby and didn't worry about peoples perceptions, and spent less time justifying to everyone why what they do has nothing to do with combat, and in effect reinforcing it in their own minds, it would be a better place wouldn't it? My point was that what is the point in stopping camo guns beiing used to take part? Banning things doesn't improve anything in our hobby / sport does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SniperCWF Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Just don't leave a realtree camo shotgun leaning against a real tree, you may never see it again.... I did this with some green binoculars a few years back. Put them down somewhere near my swim in the dark while night fishing, and spent an hour after first light looking the bloody things..... I never did find them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaveli Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 LOL wind your neck in. Why do people react like this? I've nothing to prove to you or anyone, and I shall not be attempting to. The point I made was in no way hypocritical as you suggested. The points to me are the same. CPSA don't want camo guns. Why? In case the public think it's in some way military. SO WHAT? Why in this country do we live in a state of fear of what the masses think? The very same as you (and other participants) reaction to commenting on the similarity between practical shotgun and combat / defensive shooting, and trying to force a "crowbar" seperation between the two. Does it matter? no. Camo guns - no problem. Same goes for shooting at human sillouttes - who cares? If everyone just enjoyed their chosen hobby and didn't worry about peoples perceptions, and spent less time justifying to everyone why what they do has nothing to do with combat, and in effect reinforcing it in their own minds, it would be a better place wouldn't it? My point was that what is the point in stopping camo guns beiing used to take part? Banning things doesn't improve anything in our hobby / sport does it? I think I agree with you, at least in that camo is harmless and there shouldn't be any need for a ban. But, lets not forget that we lost semi-auto rifles because a report said there was no reason for a civilian to own one. The closer any shooting activity appears to be to military training, the easier it is for anti's to say we shouldn't be allowed to do it. You likening practical shotgun to CQB training is presumably exactly the type of comparison the CPSA are trying to avoid. Is that fair? No. Do I think camo should need to be banned? No. Can I understand why it is? Yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SniperCWF Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I think I agree with you, at least in that camo is harmless and there shouldn't be any need for a ban. But, lets not forget that we lost semi-auto rifles because a report said there was no reason for a civilian to own one. The closer any shooting activity appears to be to military training, the easier it is for anti's to say we shouldn't be allowed to do it. You likening practical shotgun to CQB training is presumably exactly the type of comparison the CPSA are trying to avoid. Is that fair? No. Do I think camo should need to be banned? No. Can I understand why it is? Yes! Fair comments, I guess you're right about their reasoning, sucks though. America basically just say stuff the antis and get on with it, but here the government just work off knee-jerk reactions to everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaveli Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Fair comments, I guess you're right about their reasoning, sucks though. America basically just say stuff the antis and get on with it, but here the government just work off knee-jerk reactions to everything. The yanks have their Constitution to hide behind - they don't like changing it. We have no 'right' to own guns, so as a community we have to show we're responsible enough for the privilege. I admit, to me, camo doesn't infer anything. People wear camo as casual clothes nowadays and think nothing of it - yet if they wear the same outfit whilst doing clays it's an issue. It'd be nice if there was less politics involved in our sport, but we are where we are. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SniperCWF Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Well, I'm a sparks and constantly kneeling, crawling and generally getting covered in plaster dust etc. I wear '95 camo trousers daily, as it hides it all a bit better than black! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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