Dekers Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Save me wading through it all please. Can someone point me in the direction of the part that says Non proofed Air Rifle moderators cannot be posted. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 It does not, but a lot of sellers say that they will not so they cannot lose any licenses such as registered firearms dealer due to selling them to someone who should have declared them (ie FAC holder)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) I have to say that was my opinion, from experience and histiorical information. So, you are Confident there is no bar in the VCR to shipping Non proofed Air Rifle moderators!? I have not waded through it all so I was after advice/confirmation. Cheers Edited November 14, 2012 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhead Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 doesn't mention moderators at any point. The Gun Barrel Proof Act 1978 doesn't cover them either except in the fevered minds of the Proof Houses who quite frankly are desperately in need of business. I've never bought one that was proofed firearm or air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) So, there is No VCR Act bar, on selling and shipping a Non proofed Air Rifle moderators. This was my understanding, but I have noticed some RFD will not, and Quote the VCR Act, NOT a specific section, comments "like" .......... ........... under the VCR Act /Under legislation, we cannot ship moderators :hmm: I am not for one second telling anyone how to run their business, and if they don't want to ship moderators thats up to them, but hiding behind and quoting the legislation INCORRECTLY hardly seems appropriate! Like this.... note the window at the botton of the mod. http://www.abgunsmit...ncer-hwsil.html Have I missed something, is there some other legislation? Edited November 14, 2012 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhead Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Serious butt covering. "All transactions relating to shot guns, firearms and air weapons must be done on a face to face basis." Airgun mods are none of these and are uncontrolled. They've just invented a blanket policy to avoid trouble. If someone were stupid enough to try it, an air mod with a half inch thread would fit a firearm. Claiming it's the law would discourage the stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shootist Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Save me wading through it all please. Can someone point me in the direction of the part that says Non proofed Air Rifle moderators cannot be posted. Cheers! BASC guide on the VCR act: http://www.basc.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/E3040E51-F7C3-4C26-9DECDB0D3C8BFD82 Fairly early on it covers components parts and moderators... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 BASC guide on the VCR act: http://www.basc.org....DECDB0D3C8BFD82 Fairly early on it covers components parts and moderators... Cheers for that but I'm still lost! Does that say I can or can't sell and ship Non proofed Air Rifle moderators? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shootist Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) Cheers for that but I'm still lost! Does that say I can or can't sell and ship Non proofed Air Rifle moderators? As a private sale yes you can ..... from an RFD no it would have to be face to face as air rifles, pressure bearing components and air rifle moderators all have to go in the RFD's ledger.... If your planning on making trade out of selling moderators you'd have to become an RFD too ! From the above document: Section 31 makes it an offence for anyone to sell or transfer ‘low powered’ air weapons, their component parts or detachable sound moderators ‘by way of trade or business’ unless they are registered with the police as a firearms dealer. Do sales of component parts and accessories have to be recorded? Component parts of air weapons are caught by this section and their sale will have to be recorded by RFDs in the same way as the air weapons themselves – ‘component parts’ mean pressure bearing parts such as the barrel, cylinder or air reservoir/piston. Screws, stocks, springs, and other parts that are not pressure bearing are not component parts. The Home Office has advised that the only ‘accessories’ covered by the Firearms (Amendment) Rules 2007 are detachable sound moderators (silencers). This means that they will have to be recorded in the dealer’s register in the same manner as air weapons and it will be an offence to sell a detachable sound moderator for an air weapon by way of trade or business unless you are a registered firearms dealer. Edited November 14, 2012 by The Shootist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy198712 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Those are £40 in my local.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 As a private sale yes you can ..... from an RFD no it would have to be face to face as air rifles, pressure bearing components and air rifle moderators all have to go in the RFD's ledger.... If your planning on making trade out of selling moderators you'd have to become an RFD too ! From the above document: Section 31 makes it an offence for anyone to sell or transfer ‘low powered’ air weapons, their component parts or detachable sound moderators ‘by way of trade or business’ unless they are registered with the police as a firearms dealer. Do sales of component parts and accessories have to be recorded? As a private sale yes you can ..... from an RFD no it would have to be face to face as air rifles, pressure bearing components and air rifle moderators all have to go in the RFD's ledger.... If your planning on making trade out of selling moderators you'd have to become an RFD too ! From the above document: Section 31 makes it an offence for anyone to sell or transfer ‘low powered’ air weapons, their component parts or detachable sound moderators ‘by way of trade or business’ unless they are registered with the police as a firearms dealer. Do sales of component parts and accessories have to be recorded? Component parts of air weapons are caught by this section and their sale will have to be recorded by RFDs in the same way as the air weapons themselves – ‘component parts’ mean pressure bearing parts such as the barrel, cylinder or air reservoir/piston. Screws, stocks, springs, and other parts that are not pressure bearing are not component parts. The Home Office has advised that the only ‘accessories’ covered by the Firearms (Amendment) Rules 2007 are detachable sound moderators (silencers). This means that they will have to be recorded in the dealer’s register in the same manner as air weapons and it will be an offence to sell a detachable sound moderator for an air weapon by way of trade or business unless you are a registered firearms dealer. Component parts of air weapons are caught by this section and their sale will have to be recorded by RFDs in the same way as the air weapons themselves – ‘component parts’ mean pressure bearing parts such as the barrel, cylinder or air reservoir/piston. Screws, stocks, springs, and other parts that are not pressure bearing are not component parts. The Home Office has advised that the only ‘accessories’ covered by the Firearms (Amendment) Rules 2007 are detachable sound moderators (silencers). This means that they will have to be recorded in the dealer’s register in the same manner as air weapons and it will be an offence to sell a detachable sound moderator for an air weapon by way of trade or business unless you are a registered firearms dealer. I'm not trying to be funny but several have said the VCR Act DOESN'T cover Non proofed Air Rifle moderators. Those sections above says that RFD cannot sell/ship Moderators for Air rifles, the document above is also a GUIDE to the VCR Act. There is obviously still an outstanding question in my mind, what does the VCR Act itself say? From what I have historically seen the VCR doesn't mention mods, I have only seem this in guidance notes, have I missed it, and what effect does a guidance note have on an Act? Hence why I asked the question! I don't know, I was looking for some help and to be honest I'm still as confused! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shootist Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) I'm not trying to be funny but several have said the VCR Act DOESN'T cover Non proofed Air Rifle moderators. Those sections above says that RFD cannot sell/ship Moderators for Air rifles, the document above is also a GUIDE to the VCR Act. Hence why I asked the question! I don't know, I was looking for some help and to be honest I'm still as confused! Cheers I suggest you write to the Association of Chief Police Officers and BASC who jointly produced that guide if you think they dont understand the 2006 VCR act and the subsequent 2007 firearm amendment rules. I'm no lawyer ... you asked the question and I have done my best to provide an answer ... if you think they're wrong, take it up with them.... Good luck ! Edited November 15, 2012 by The Shootist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 I suggest you write to the Association of Chief Police Officers and BASC who jointly produced that guide if you think they dont understand the 2006 VCR act and the subsequent 2007 firearm amendment rules. I'm no lawyer .,.. you asked the question and I have done my best to provide an answer ... if you think they're wrong, take it up with them.... Chap, I'm looking for answers here not a scrap, The Home Office Firearms GUIDE says rimfires are not suitable for foxes, yet ALL of my rimfires are so conditioned. What does the VCR Act say, I'm not addressing that to you specifically, that is the question I originally asked. So far 2 totally opposite answers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Actually this is getting hard work and it appears to have no definitive answer so far, lets try another approach. Can someone please give me a link to the WHOLE VCR Act and I'll wade through it all myself. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Chap, I'm looking for answers here not a scrap, The Home Office Firearms GUIDE says rimfires are not suitable for foxes, yet ALL of my rimfires are so conditioned. What does the VCR Act say, I'm not addressing that to you specifically, that is the question I originally asked. So far 2 totally opposite answers! EDIT...and I haven't said anyone is wrong, I just need an answer! Edited November 15, 2012 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolhead Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 The VCR is here; http://www.legislati...006/38/contents The Firearms (Amendment) Rules 2007 are here; http://www.legislati.../2007/2605/made Gun Barrel Proof Act 1978 is here; http://www.legislati...1978/9/contents At no point does the VCR mention mods or other barrel accessories - Fact Section 32 "Face to Face" by business sellers applies only to "air weapon" and does not carry any extentions. - Fact. The 2007 rules say "Note: in this Part “air weapon” includes any component of, or accessory to, an air weapon." This is so wide as to require the recording by the RFD of particulars of sale of anything that attaches to an air gun including slings, butt-pads and bipods. Once such AIR items leave a business seller they become uncontrolled. No mods/strippers/compensators/brakes or thread protectors are required to be proofed under the Gun Barrel Act, firearm or air - Fact Being cautious is always a good policy though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) The VCR is here; http://www.legislati...006/38/contents The Firearms (Amendment) Rules 2007 are here; http://www.legislati.../2007/2605/made Gun Barrel Proof Act 1978 is here; http://www.legislati...1978/9/contents At no point does the VCR mention mods or other barrel accessories - Fact Section 32 "Face to Face" by business sellers applies only to "air weapon" and does not carry any extentions. - Fact. The 2007 rules say "Note: in this Part “air weapon” includes any component of, or accessory to, an air weapon." This is so wide as to require the recording by the RFD of particulars of sale of anything that attaches to an air gun including slings, butt-pads and bipods. Once such AIR items leave a business seller they become uncontrolled. No mods/strippers/compensators/brakes or thread protectors are required to be proofed under the Gun Barrel Act, firearm or air - Fact Being cautious is always a good policy though. Appreciate! And I suspect some may think I'm being a bit slow here, perhaps I am, BUT...... OK, yes or no answer, I am a RFD, I sell an air rifle (unproofed) mod to a customer on the phone and ship it to him, have I broken the law? Cheers Edited November 15, 2012 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubshot Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Been a issue since it came out Rather Killed Off the Mail Order Silencer Makers Aware in Met Area - London - On Checks of Sales Register they Still want to see a name and address against Silencer Sales Rather like 6mm a Voluntary Code amongst Dealers - To save further Legislation BOB/R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 I suggest you write to the Association of Chief Police Officers and BASC who jointly produced that guide if you think they dont understand the 2006 VCR act and the subsequent 2007 firearm amendment rules. I'm no lawyer ... you asked the question and I have done my best to provide an answer ... if you think they're wrong, take it up with them.... Good luck ! Nope, spoke to a Norfolk FEO who confirmed that moderators that were not proofed were not part of it! Appreciate! And I suspect some may think I'm being a bit slow here, perhaps I am, BUT...... OK, yes or no answer, I am a RFD, I sell an air rifle (unproofed) mod to a customer on the phone and ship it to him, have I broken the law? Cheers According to Norfolk's FEO team, NO, you have not broken the law! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabs Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Make a silencer and sell as new and post.....Hmmmm. Make a silencer, fire a pellet through it, sell as 'second hand' and post....Hmmmmm ?? Edited November 15, 2012 by pabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome of the Woods Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Make a silencer and sell as new and post.....Hmmmm. Make a silencer, fire a pellet through it, sell as 'second hand' and post....Hmmmmm ?? Thats been done Alot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shootist Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Nope, spoke to a Norfolk FEO who confirmed that moderators that were not proofed were not part of it! Here's a link to a Home Office page that shows that silencers are included... http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/corporate-publications-strategy/home-office-circulars/circulars-2007/031-2007/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.