atlantic greylag

[take em]

Does anyone know if theres any difference with the greylags at orkney to the resident ones,someone told me they're all "atlantic greylags" there & he said they've got thicker necks.

[scolopax]

No physical differences. The greylags on Orkney at this time of year are mainly migratory Icelandic breeding geese, although there is also now a strong population of resident non migratory breeding birds that derive from the birds breeding in NW Scotland. There is some debate as to whether or not some Icelandic birds have stayed to breed on the Northern Isles.

 

The greylags in England and Wales originate from releases of non migratory Scottish birds in the 50's and 60's.

 

In essence a Greylag in Kent or Yorkshire is the same bird as a greylag on Orkney. (although in England there is some contmaination from farm yard type greylags, hence occasionally some white or pied birds).

[anser2]

Any greylags with thicker necks are likely to be males. You can pick out the males in the field by this and their more alert posture while the females are busy feeding. But once shot Its a very doubtful feature. Asd Scolopax says feral English and Icelantic greylags are the same , but many feral English birds have picked up some domestic blood and a few ganders can be very large in England. There is a Eastern race of greylag that is very rare in the UK ( from Eastern Europe and Russia ) and probably does not even come here most years. Its a paler bird with a pink not orange bill. However beware of pale bodied orange billed birds , these will be greylags who's parents bred with tame domestic geese.

[Pole Star]

Interesting points chaps ? when I brought this small farm it was part of a much bigger diary farm & the previous owner told me that when he took on this farm in the 1950s the Greylags would arrive from Iceland & only stay a short time & then all head south & he would not see them until the return to Iceland but then as time went on they started to stay .

I think as rough heather grazing has given over to improved grass land the geese have most or all of what they need here & I have heard rumors that there where some feral / domestic greylags kept on the Isle of Shapinsay & that some of the Orkney geese have come from them . As for the pure white ones yes they have seen once in a while & again I did hear rumors that one of the white Greylags was seen in Iceland ? .

 

Some did suggest to me that some of the birds may have been lightly pricked birds that were unable to make the migration back to Iceland that recovered & bred here the next summer ? perhaps ? , they say Peter Scott started some of his collection with lightly pricked birds ? ! so perhaps that is a possible reason for Orkney Greylags too ! .

I did post on here a curios thing I noticed when the geese were migrating when I heard a long line of Greylags calling to another long line of Greylags over my cottage & then join up in to a wonderful V formation & then head out over the sea & then a mile or more out one half of the formation suddenly broke off & came straight back inland ! I think this was a mix of Orkney geese & Icelandic hence the break up of the formation ? .

 

Also an Orkney Greylag with a neck collar was seen on the Norfolk Broards so proof that the Orkney geese do move about .

 

Pole Star

 

ps Okney Greylags do have some domestic blood in them as a farmer friend had some domestics that crossed with some wild stock & then left with the wild geese later on

Edited January 8, 2013 by Pole Star

[Pole Star]

Just counted 190 greylags in my field 100yards from where I sit at my computer ! just love looking out the window at them ! will be out with the decoys & 8bore in the morn if the wind is still right !

 

Sorry but just had to rub it in ! 2 u no who !!!

[M ROBSON]

I shot a Grey with a neck collar on the Tay about 15 years ago. It had been rung on Loch Eye, was spotted many times on Orkney over several years, but had never been seen further south than Tain..........until it was shot!

Some of the ring recoveries taken from the resident Greys on Loch Leven have been reported to travel up to 30 miles in all direction during the winter months. They spend most of their time around the loch but the ringing has proven that they do move about at certain times.

 

Cheers,

Mark

[Pole Star]

I shot a Grey with a neck collar on the Tay about 15 years ago. It had been rung on Loch Eye, was spotted many times on Orkney over several years, but had never been seen further south than Tain..........until it was shot!

Some of the ring recoveries taken from the resident Greys on Loch Leven have been reported to travel up to 30 miles in all direction during the winter months. They spend most of their time around the loch but the ringing has proven that they do move about at certain times.

 

Cheers,

Mark

Thanks Mark according to the Orkney ringing report I have It looks as though there is a small annual mini migration of ringed Orkney greylags too the East Anglian Broads but they say the numbers are small .

In 2010 it says 4 of that years ringed Goslings made the trip to Norfolk . .

 

Interesting bit in this paper on a greylag with an orange neck collar number B17 originally ringed as part of a summering flock on Loch Loyal in Sutherland in 1996 & the following year it had moved to Orkney & thereafter remained on Orkney & seen most years in the west mainland area & was found dead in August 2010 on the hill opposite where I live so it lived for 14 years which the report says is impressive for a collard Greylag .

 

I was talking to a mate today & he saw a pure white goose feeding with the greylags today here in Orkney not sure but I have heard rumors that American Snow Geese have bred here again .

ATB PS an update I have just read in the same report the Leucistic goose which got named Blondie survived the 2009/2010 shooting season but had not been seen since May 2010 ? I wonder if this light phase goose is still here ? & what the white goose was my mate saw today is

Edited January 9, 2013 by Pole Star

[anser2]

• 4 Orkney greylags were been seen\shot in Norfolk last year. It would be interesting to know how many have been neck ringed in Orkney and we could then get some idea of how many of the 3000-4000 wintering greylags come from there. We have just had a big increase of greys both on the North Coast and Broads over the past few weeks so it begs the question where are they comming from. Also 2 Dutch neck ringed greylags have turned up.
  

[Yoggy]

Really interesting thread this.....

 

Anser..... Do the Greylags around your local Norfolk shores ever get tagged?.

[Pole Star]

• 4 Orkney greylags were been seen\shot in Norfolk last year. It would be interesting to know how many have been neck ringed in Orkney and we could then get some idea of how many of the 3000-4000 wintering greylags come from there. We have just had a big increase of greys both on the North Coast and Broads over the past few weeks so it begs the question where are they comming from. Also 2 Dutch neck ringed greylags have turned up.
  

Just while I have a mo & reading quickly from the ringing report anser2 the numbers ringed in Orkney are as follows year 2008 139

2009 186

2010 138

 

Total 463

ATB Pole Star

[anser2]

Pole star that suggests if your feral population is around 10\12,000 about 4.5- 5% have neck rings. With 4 Orkney neck ringed greys being seen in Norfolk and a mid winter population of around 3000 we could be playing host to around 150-170 Orkney Greylags. Of course there could be a bias here if a complete family of neck ringed birds have turned up , but this is unlikley as the birds were not all togeather in the flocks where they have been watched.

Yoggy , there are small numbers of leg ringed greys rung every year in Norfolk . I used to ring about 20 most years back in the 1980\90s. I had recoveries from right across N Norfolk and one or two from Fenland. But they never ventured any further. But these migrations often take years to develope.

[anser2]

Just had a quick check in the Norfolk Bird report and see there were 7 Orkney neck ringed greys in Norfolk Broadland in 2010 and 4 in 2011. So that suggests a higher percentage of our greys could be Orkney birds.

[Pole Star]

I think the report last year when farmers were demanding a cull of the resident geese that the number of resident geese had increased to some 15,000 or so but I will have to check the paper work again . It will be interesting to see if any of the Orkney ringed geese turn up further afield such as Holland or the Wexford slobs in Ireland ect .

 

I did report on here some time ago of one of the Green Land White Fronts banded in the Wexford slobs turned up here in Orkney some time back & I have noticed that some times Greylags & White Fronts will fly together on the evening flights back to the lochs which makes evening flights a bit dodgy as the white fronts tend not to call much amongst greylags or worse still remain remain quite !. .

 

Pole Star

[Pole Star]

Just checked the Wexford Slobs Bird Reserve site & in mid November they only saw 9 Greylags on the south slob & 16+Pink foots ,seems so few to the numbers in Britain !

As for the Greenland White Fronts the number is some 8,000 & 1500 Light Bellied Brent Geese Wales is only a hop across the Irish sea so you would think they would have a greater number of Grelags & Pinks . Perhaps any welsh chaps on here can give some indication the numbers in Wales

 

Pole Star

 

or can any wildfowlers in Cormwall tell us about greylag & pinkfoot numbers there as that is closer to Wexford ?

Edited January 11, 2013 by Pole Star

[SuperGoose75]

In essence a Greylag in Kent or Yorkshire is the same bird as a greylag on Orkney. (although in England there is some contmaination from farm yard type greylags, hence occasionally some white or pied birds).

 

That is really interesting and has answered a Question I have put to many a Bird watcher.

 

A good few years Back I was glassing through a field of a Couple of Thousand Greys when I spotted one with a piebald Face.

A few years later' while doing the Same thing' I couldnt believe it when I spotted two together with piebald faces.

I inquired to many birdwatchers as to what they thought about it but none had any idea.

I just put it down to the 1st bird i saw having had some offspring' and one had contacted the piebald face.

It was strange seeing the two together amongst the normal greys.

Now i know.

 

These where in Ireland by the way.

[Penelope]

They are two races of Greylag, the western and eastern. The Western has orange bill/pink legs & feet, the Eastern, pink bill/orange legs. The Eastern's range stretches across Asia, Asia minor and eastern Europe/Russia, the Western, well, west of those points.

 

The birds that winter in Orkney will be Icelandic birds.(As will those in Ireland if winter visitors and not year round feral flocks)

 

I believe the feral flocks in England are descended from geese brought down from the Hebrides.

 

They are the most likely ancestor of the domestic goose, given the very similar morphology and vocalisation. Wild greys do have a degree of colour mutation, with a reasonable number of birds having a band of white feather around the bill, similar, but not to the same extent as the Whitefronted goose.

 

Feral greys will commonly hybridise with Canadian geese, and throw odd looking young with a distinctly hoarse half way between to two species call. They will also quite happily breed with domestic type geese, which will lead to pied colouration of varying degrees in the offsprin, adding strength to the almost certainty that the Greylag is the ancestor of the European domestic goose, which around the time of domestication would of had a much larger breeding range than they do now.

 

IMO opinion the morphology of the Lesser and Greater Snow Geese of the continental Americas is very similar to the Greylag, suggesting a common ancestor.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Penelope

[Pole Star]

There has been more than one pure white goose in Orkney & a Greylag Canada cross .

 

Pole Star

[SuperGoose75]

They are two races of Greylag, the western and eastern. The Western has orange bill/pink legs & feet, the Eastern, pink bill/orange legs. The Eastern's range stretches across Asia, Asia minor and eastern Europe/Russia, the Western, well, west of those points.

 

The birds that winter in Orkney will be Icelandic birds.(As will those in Ireland if winter visitors and not year round feral flocks)

 

I believe the feral flocks in England are descended from geese brought down from the Hebrides.

 

They are the most likely ancestor of the domestic goose, given the very similar morphology and vocalisation. Wild greys do have a degree of colour mutation, with a reasonable number of birds having a band of white feather around the bill, similar, but not to the same extent as the Whitefronted goose.

 

Feral greys will commonly hybridise with Canadian geese, and throw odd looking young with a distinctly hoarse half way between to two species call. They will also quite happily breed with domestic type geese, which will lead to pied colouration of varying degrees in the offsprin, adding strength to the almost certainty that the Greylag is the ancestor of the European domestic goose, which around the time of domestication would of had a much larger breeding range than they do now.

 

IMO opinion the morphology of the Lesser and Greater Snow Geese of the continental Americas is very similar to the Greylag, suggesting a common ancestor.

Yes I am aware of most of that..However they where the first piebald Greygeese i have witnessed in my 20 plus years Wildfowling and they had me Confused.

We have had a few Albino/leucistic Greys here over the years as well as some semi albino ones. A few beans turning up also this past number of years.