mad1 Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Same as the other comment ... Iv the exact same rifle 1517 and run a £35 sak and it's no difference to my mates £200 mod .... There might be a change in tone if anything but defiantly no noticeable difference in volume ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffo223 Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 That's what I used to think as well but with this new moderator I and others can tell a distinct difference. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad1 Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'll have a look and listen if that's ok when we are at catton ... I could really do with one that mutes it a bit Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 So, has something changed with the Whisper, it comes out well behind the SAK here, actually well behind most things! http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/gunreviews/381445/17HMR_calibre_sound_moderators_review_.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffo223 Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Why do you think I changed. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipers eye Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 lads as far as im concerned the review putting the whisper behind the sak is inaccurate,i have a 16" thumbhole heavy barrel .17hmr cz.and me and 3 mates all agree the whisper is better sound wise,maybe its like the ammno,one has to find the one that suits the gun best, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Try firing your hmr into soft earth or sand a couple of feet away. The bullet will not develop a supersonic crack so you can judge the effect of the silencer more easily without the distraction of the crack. I suggest that pretty much any silencer will do a similar job. I use DM80 with .17 bore but would not claim that it is significantly quieter than SAK with its .22 bore or anything else. A short barrel hmr will be harder on a moderator than a long barrel simply because of the effect of heat on the mod baffles. I corroded my SAKs too quickly on the hmr (Anschutz 14"), they are better suited to the cooler .22. Price / performance, probably SAK. Weight / build quality etc. there are plenty to choose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 You will not gain anything tangible, get a .22 lr and feed it subs out of a moderated gun if you want quiet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I have had a custom moderator built for me and my dad for our 17hmr sako quads. The new moderator's are replacing a wildcat whisper(mine) and a dm80. The new moderators are a hell of a lot smaller and quite a bit quieter when compared to are other mods and a sak. I have zeroed the rifle a week ago and have found it groups better with the new moderator. I also went to carlton moor range on Saturday and the owner of the range commented on how quite the moderator was but also how well they are made. They are fully stainless steel including the baffles so no rot or rust issues. The moderator's are made by onelesscharlie (Colin), so if people are after a improvement over what is available speak to him. Cost of the moderator is good as well , depending on spec, mine was £70. Before anyone says"do you work or sell for him" NO I DON'T I am simplyrecrecommending something that not many people know about . I will be going to the pw shoot weekend, when it's announced, if anyone wants to have a look and a listen. Paul There is no reason a HMR should be more accurate with a particular brand of moderator. Recoil is negligible so any reduction will add up to nothing, the only factor might be balance on your gun being improved for your style or a faulty one being compared with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffo223 Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I think your a bit off the mark actually Kent, it's all to do with the harmonics of the baffles/build of the moderator. When I was having the mod made I went through different configurations to get to what I have now and some of these shot REALLY bad but again this is alot better. When I went to carlton moor range at the weekend, underground tunnel range, I tested my old whisper and my onelesscharlie both for accuracy. Both where shot off the same rifle, same distance, same bullets, same hold / grip when firing and the onelesscharlie was a tad better. Again accuracy is down to the harmonics. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) The figures in the report are all measured in the same way so if one is inaccurate then they are all inaccurate in the same way. The report is several years old which is why I asked if something has changed with the Wildcat Whisper, because about 4 years back the Whisper and SAK side by side showed a noticeable difference in favour of the SAK on a HMR. The Whisper was always cack for the money, and worse in virtually every respect to the SAK. So, if it is apparently better now, what has changed? I have no axe to grind here and don't have shares in SAK, I run 3 x Wildcat P8's which I rate, but the Whisper was always pants! Edited January 7, 2014 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 You will not gain anything tangible, get a .22 lr and feed it subs out of a moderated gun if you want quiet The thread is titled Hmr moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipers eye Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 dont know if the whisper has changed since the report,but the one i now own is better in every way over the sak i had on,yes its more expensive,but you get what you pay for,my mates have now ordered a whisper having compared with the saks they have,so i guess something has changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I think your a bit off the mark actually Kent, it's all to do with the harmonics of the baffles/build of the moderator. When I was having the mod made I went through different configurations to get to what I have now and some of these shot REALLY bad but again this is alot better. When I went to carlton moor range at the weekend, underground tunnel range, I tested my old whisper and my onelesscharlie both for accuracy. Both where shot off the same rifle, same distance, same bullets, same hold / grip when firing and the onelesscharlie was a tad better. Again accuracy is down to the harmonics. Paul The harmonics of a HMR barrel will not make any difference between two properly made moderators, at least not so you can see it at 100 yds. Over- estimate the Harmonics if you wish. Now if one was sitting loose on its thread or off centre that's another matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 The thread is titled Hmr moderator And you wont silence any of the crack - my point, it don't take extra baffles or bigger chambers to cool those gasses produced by a HMR, any gain will always be debateable and going after it you become like a pet mouse in its wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffo223 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Kent, having had various demo mods made by onelesscharlie to various specs I can say 100% that harmonics DO make a difference, a target paper at 100 yards can't lie, what don't speak can't lie. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 And you wont silence any of the crack - my point, it don't take extra baffles or bigger chambers to cool those gasses produced by a HMR, any gain will always be debateable and going after it you become like a pet mouse in its wheel So, best forget HMR and just get a Hornet then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Kent, having had various demo mods made by onelesscharlie to various specs I can say 100% that harmonics DO make a difference, a target paper at 100 yards can't lie, what don't speak can't lie. Paul Many things effect accuracy, not always the ones you think are doing it. Sorry I am not having it if there is no fault with the inferior one. Harmonic tuners are available for Rimfire benchrest, check out the reports on how much (rather little) difference they make when people are looking for total perfection. A HMR hunting rifle at 100yds is not capable of shooting within the tolerance at which you could see it. I am not disputing you printed better groups using you new moddy, just the reason might not be as you suspect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffo223 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Kent, I think we'll have to beg to differ on this one....but I am right and you're wrong ;-) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Yes, you wont convince me otherwise. Harmonic gains are unpredictable and slight at best, read up on tuners you will learn a lot of surprising stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I tend to agree with Kent on this one. In practical day to day shooting we control the effect of harmonics by doing everything the same from shot to shot. Shooting off a bipod results in slightly different shot placement than resting the rifle on a fence or supported on a sand bag. The gun reacts differently and changing moderators also has a very significant effect. Different moderators on the same rifle will cause the bullet to land in different places on the target due to changed barrel harmonics, it really does flex when fired. The size of the group at 100 yards is not likely to be significantly different with different moderators though, just the placement of the group. A 5 shot 1" group with an hmr in ideal conditions at 100 yards is jolly hard to achieve despite the "one hole" claims of some people in these forums (one hit and 4 misses?). My DM80 and my SAK are completely different in weight and design but neither makes my hmr any more or less accurate although the zero is quite different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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