HDAV Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 You do not have a right to bring weapons into the workplace... the only people who can give you the authority to do that are your employers and personally, I think you should just accept what your manager has asked of you and wind your neck in... if you worked for me I would refuse permission... if you did what you are doing, you would be looking for another job!! Think of it another way...... Do you work from home? IF you employed a secretary/assistant/cleaner who also worked in your home would you remove your guns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulliewinky Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Ex RMP ******* rat catchers, says it all. Yawn. Superior officer, in the public sector....... What a t**t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 I'm struggling see the issue, your supervisor says no guns at work, you say not fair. Your not in charge. Personally I think your making something out of nothing, as much as I like the water fairies I have to agree with your sc on this one, there is no need for it to be there. I'd struggle to have mine at work even in the armoury. Comparing it to another competitive sport doesn't quite cut it either as last time I looked you don't need a licence for any other sport that doesn't involve shooting or driving. Why ruin it for all the other stations by making an issue out of it? Take it on the chin like the big tough fireman/plaster/plumber and get over it Before you know it your "disciplined service". Is on strike again and the army have. To help out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 I'm struggling see the issue, your supervisor says no guns at work, you say not fair. Your not in charge. Personally I think your making something out of nothing, as much as I like the water fairies I have to agree with your sc on this one, there is no need for it to be there. I'd struggle to have mine at work even in the armoury. Comparing it to another competitive sport doesn't quite cut it either as last time I looked you don't need a licence for any other sport that doesn't involve shooting or driving. Why ruin it for all the other stations by making an issue out of it? Take it on the chin like the big tough fireman/plaster/plumber and get over it Before you know it your "disciplined service". Is on strike again and the army have. To help out The issue is why it has been fine in the past but new SC has a problem (as far as we know for no legitimate reason) other than a personal dislike...Does the SC have that authority? What are the policies on "personal possessions" at the work place. As for recreational activities that require licence........... Flying (Gliding, Fixed wing, rotary wing) I work with several private pilots Fishing (Coarse) Ham Radio Dog breeding.... Need i go on? Having or indeed needing a licence have nothing to do with it................ Would the same rules apply to someone who shot air rifles (sub 12 Ft/lbs)? Airsoft? Paintball? Archery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 As for recreational activities that require licence........... Dog breeding.... Didn't they recently make that illegal in Germany? :whistling: :whistling: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Yawn. Best you get the union involved, pehaps another strike so your sc can discuss his perfectly reasonable and I suggest quite lawful order of no guns at work. You can't put many fires out with them and last time I checked there not much good removing people from car crashes. Why make such an issue out of it? Why get on the soap box and shout it about so all your othern other stations may also be disallowed from doing it. Evenryone gets a **** boss sometimes, get over it, plan your day around it. You won't win this one and I agree with the sc. I would be annoyed if someone in my station was told no and then decided they should canvas people elsewhere to make the argument hold more water. Can u imagine a soldier questioning a major on if he should go on stag for 3 hours or have some extra sleep and then asking others what they thought of it when they lost, or a policeman refusing to arrest someone as his Sgt asked him perfectly reasonably to do so ..... Why are the fire brigade any different, I might be getting on my own soap box here but its really annoying me, there is nothing unreasonable with your supervisor telling u not to bring a firearm to work. Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Bear Posted March 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Everyone deserves to be treated equally at work. Why are you so concerned about my colleagues at other stations being disallowed from doing it? Surely if you agree with my SC then you must think the others shouldn't be granted this privilege either. You get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Cleary your not concerned. Says a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Yawn. Best you get the union involved, pehaps another strike so your sc can discuss his perfectly reasonable and I suggest quite lawful order of no guns at work. You can't put many fires out with them and last time I checked there not much good removing people from car crashes. Why make such an issue out of it? Why get on the soap box and shout it about so all your othern other stations may also be disallowed from doing it. Evenryone gets a **** boss sometimes, get over it, plan your day around it. You won't win this one and I agree with the sc. I would be annoyed if someone in my station was told no and then decided they should canvas people elsewhere to make the argument hold more water. Can u imagine a soldier questioning a major on if he should go on stag for 3 hours or have some extra sleep and then asking others what they thought of it when they lost, or a policeman refusing to arrest someone as his Sgt asked him perfectly reasonably to do so ..... Why are the fire brigade any different, I might be getting on my own soap box here but its really annoying me, there is nothing unreasonable with your supervisor telling u not to bring a firearm to work. Get over it. So the OP does not use his shotgun for "work" but as a personal leisure activity outside of his working hours. The item in question is stored in a manner approved by his FLO, there is no risk to his colleagues or the general public so why should it be an issue for the SC. or does anyone further up the food chain have the right to dictate what you lawfully do in your own time. Could the SC decide that there is to be no keeping playing cards on force property? Do they have the right to search a privately owned vehicle? Can they search your locker at will? You might be happy to work under these conditions. That doesn't mean it is right or legal. No law has been breached nor a formal regulation. Is porn allowed? If you have porn in your car can action be taken against you? BTW by porn I mean legal to posers in the uk does a copy of razzle in your locker contraven a law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) Look, I'm not an anti however he works for a disciplinedbservice hence has to follow rules, if his supervisor says no guns then no guns is the rule. As for searching his locker then yes they can as it remains property of thre fire service, no warrant needed, his station commander can give the authority. Private vehicles on fb property will be able to be searched as a condition of entry I suspect. I have to work under similar conditions, as often pointed out we're not special and can change employment if we want. As for his own time that's the issue, he's at work. Edited March 8, 2013 by GingerCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Bear Posted March 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Cleary your not concerned. Says a lot. I am concerned and every one of my colleagues that takes their gun to work in my brigade is aware of my situation and I have been assured, by the shooting section chairman, that I have their full support. If my SC has the support of senior management and there is a valid reason for not allowing guns on station property then it should apply to all employees at all stations. Not just one employee at one station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 I am concerned and every one of my colleagues that takes their gun to work in my brigade is aware of my situation and I have been assured, by the shooting section chairman, that I have their full support. If my SC has the support of senior management and there is a valid reason for not allowing guns on station property then it should apply to all employees at all stations. Not just one employee at one station. Perhaps he thinks you are a risk and more so armed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Bear Posted March 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Perhaps he thinks you are a risk and more so armed? There he goes again, "armed". You're a nutter mate. A sporting gun is loaded, aimed, fired and made safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 There he goes again, "armed". You're a nutter mate. A sporting gun is loaded, aimed, fired and made safe. I'm trying to 'encourage' you to see this from a non shooters poerspective... You have a gun or parts thereof... like it or not, you are armed 12g Beratta 682 sporting = gun / M-15 assault rifle = gun... there is no distinction some non shooters feel very uneasy when they are in the same room/building with guns some non shooters would find it difficult to rationalise your belief that you have the right to take firearms into work Some non shooters feel threatened when in the same room/building as someone with a gun I know this because my wife view things exectly like this and it is a constant battle to be able to have firearms in my home.. As has been said many times... your manager, the most senior person at your site has asked you not to take firearms onto the premises. If he has singled you out then fine, take it up with your union or follow the FB grievence procedure.. I think all that you will ultimately do is force HQ to take a universal stance on employees bringhing firearms into the station and force them to put something in the employee handbook to cover this. I am pretty certain in the current climate that the entry in the handbook would forbid it. I stand by my earlier comments... Firearms have no place in the workplace and your attitude towards the legitimate request of a senior manager shows a lack of respect and a very imature attitude... I knew someone once who worked for Aldi in quite a senior position... he came on a public forum and called his management and organisation similar names as those you have used... when he went in the next day he was suspended (as it had been seen and reported) and he then lost his job.. as I said earlier, it is attitudes such as yours, that show a complete lack of respect for those in authority, that will ultimately bring this country to it's knees! You never know... he could have made the request thinking you were doing something illegal and, as SC, he was soehow complicit. after his chat with the FEO he may change his mind and allow you to carry on as before.. but if you keep this petchulant attitude going you won't do much to help your case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Bear Posted March 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 My reaction to the request from my manager was to seek advice from the chairman of the shooting section. He advised me to inform my union rep. How is that either immature or lacking in respect? I can't see any words I've used that would warrant a suspension but I'm sure you'll enlighten me. Finally just because someone has authority doesn't mean they're correct. As for bringing this country to its knees. It's people like me who need to stand up and be counted to make this country great again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daks Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Spouting more pretentious dogma Vipa, truculence personified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Spouting more pretentious dogma Vipa, truculence personified. A slightly paradoxical criticism with a post like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 i would think 95% of employers would not allow it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) My reaction to the request from my manager was to seek advice from the chairman of the shooting section. He advised me to inform my union rep. How is that either immature or lacking in respect? I can't see any words I've used that would warrant a suspension but I'm sure you'll enlighten me. Finally just because someone has authority doesn't mean they're correct. As for bringing this country to its knees. It's people like me who need to stand up and be counted to make this country great again. It is lacking respect because a senior manager has requested you do something which is a reasonable and legal request.. You should abide by his decision. He would be well within his managerial right to ask that no personal possessions be brought onto FB premises.. The fact that it is a firearm is, in some ways irrelevant. Immature because if you were mature about this you would accept his decision and get on with it instead of spitting your dummy out and trying to get others to agree with you.. This is not about who is right or wrong.. In this instance you hae been given an order (for want of a better word) and you should follow it. As for bringing the country to it's knees... There is a complete lack of respect for authority in Britain and it's getting worse.. Kids have no respect for thier parents or teacher's authority, youths have no respect for the police's authority.. There is no longer any respect for the authority if management or employers.. There is an assumption that everything is a right and that if you don't agree with a reasonable request you just either ignore it or kick off and strop until you get your own way.. You are giving a perfect example here. As for getting in trouble (mr reference to my acquaintance who used to work for Aldi... On a public forum you have thus far called your station commander a 'muppet,' a 'jobs worth' and a 'little ****!' As well as questioning his legitimate decision and orders. Now, whilst there is nothing wrong in feeling this way about the gaffer or indeed venting your spleen over a beer with mates.. To do this openly on a public forum is, to my mind a big no no. If I was HQ Command looking at this I might feel that, if seen by other team members, it could damage moral at the station and further undermine the commanders authority and therefore effectiveness as the senior manager at the station and even his authority and command ability in the field.. Even your mighty union would struggle to defend you against that one as your commanders ability to lead in the field could impact on people's lives! There is a very old saying which is so true.... 'Pick your fights carefully!' To my mind this one is not worth the potential outcome! Even if that outcome is only you getting the facility taken away from your colleagues at other stations! Edited March 9, 2013 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asa Bear Posted March 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I have to agree with Daks about you Vipa. I have and will abide by his request I just don't agree with it and don't think it's fair when employees are treated differently. Therefore I am well within my rights to question it. My dummy is still firmly in place. Accepting discriminatory decisions and just getting on with it is a lemmings way of doing things. Unfortunately for people like you some of this country's workforce are educated and confident in challenging injustices. I fail to see how I'm stropping or kicking off. I tried to enlighten the SC in my meeting with him but he would accept nothing I said regarding the laws on firearms. I informed him i would be speaking to the shooting section and I haven't been on duty since. I'll accept some derogatory language has been used on this thread but I'm sure my SC would be flattered if he thought I'd called him a little star. I'm back on duty Monday so I'll see what has developed from his investigations. I will not be answering any more of your trolls Vipa. 💩 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) I have to agree with Daks about you Vipa. I have and will abide by his request I just don't agree with it and don't think it's fair when employees are treated differently. Therefore I am well within my rights to question it. My dummy is still firmly in place. Accepting discriminatory decisions and just getting on with it is a lemmings way of doing things. Unfortunately for people like you some of this country's workforce are educated and confident in challenging injustices. I fail to see how I'm stropping or kicking off. I tried to enlighten the SC in my meeting with him but he would accept nothing I said regarding the laws on firearms. I informed him i would be speaking to the shooting section and I haven't been on duty since. I'll accept some derogatory language has been used on this thread but I'm sure my SC would be flattered if he thought I'd called him a little star. I'm back on duty Monday so I'll see what has developed from his investigations. I will not be answering any more of your trolls Vipa. 💩 Unfortunately star is not blanked out like ****! Quick, go and change it! You either want opinions or you want sympathy.. You came on asking for opinions.. You were give opinions and yet have accepted without question those that agree with you and have argued blind with those that don't.... This just re-in forces my view! I know he's got no right to search my van but now he's said I can't have a gun on the premises it'd be just my luck to have my van nicked from the yard and then be disciplined for disobeying this little **** I had that luxury for a while. Now I've got a muppet in charge. Look.. Right there! Edited March 9, 2013 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulliewinky Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I have to agree with Daks about you Vipa. I have and will abide by his request I just don't agree with it and don't think it's fair when employees are treated differently. Therefore I am well within my rights to question it. My dummy is still firmly in place. Accepting discriminatory decisions and just getting on with it is a lemmings way of doing things. Unfortunately for people like you some of this country's workforce are educated and confident in challenging injustices. I fail to see how I'm stropping or kicking off. I tried to enlighten the SC in my meeting with him but he would accept nothing I said regarding the laws on firearms. I informed him i would be speaking to the shooting section and I haven't been on duty since. I'll accept some derogatory language has been used on this thread but I'm sure my SC would be flattered if he thought I'd called him a little star. I'm back on duty Monday so I'll see what has developed from his investigations. I will not be answering any more of your trolls Vipa. 💩 Well said logo, thank god we have a union in the fire service so we can have at least some sort of protection from over zealous managers. Unlike the armed forces Civies DO have the right to speak up for themselves, & before any smart **** thinks I don't know what I'm talking about, Yes I have served, thank you. Good luck with your issue mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 You will not win this case and can only harm yourself, either take the advice already given by most and move on OR fight it (as you appear to be doing) but dont expect an easy ride from your SC. He will have a long memory I am sure, and as Vipa has said I think you have been a little bit silly in slagging of your gaffer in an open forum! Remember that your fight might well in turn mean that your mates in other stations will lose the chance to keep their guns in station and might just be a little peed off by this, then a simply cut and paste from here and landed on the gaffers desk and you are in real hot water Personally I dont think you have handled this in a very professional manner and also think you have no chance of success but crack on and let us know how you get on All the best from CM Smurf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 What's shocks me most is the "don't rock the boat" and "you must obey your superior" sentiment. The general public being scared of guns are the ones that have never seen one, only films and photos..... The MIL was petrified of my shotgun until I showed it to her, showed her how it comes apart and is secured. Now all I get is a cheery "have you brought your gun?" If I say no she asks whynot. Irrational fears and ill informed decisions are far more dangerous than part of a shotgun in a work locker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I only spend 2 days a fortnight at our premises with 10 acre yard and my boss asked me to bring a gun into work.Rabbits are a serious pest there-they've undermined a corner of the yard to such an extent that the ground gave way and the forktruck sank! Usually take the rimfire or a shotgun for bolting rabbits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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