JonathanL Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 You think my referee was telling porkies? I let me assure you he wasn't. As for "no" being an acceptable answer, Not in this instance. And it is not my place to fight it. Karpman I'm not for one minute suggesting that your referee is telling lies. I'm sure the form has been sent back. All I said was thayt its the first time I've heard of it happening. If the police have sent it back for that though then they are wrong. If you have no knowledge of something then when asked if you know about it then 'no' is a perfectly reasonable response. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 why would you fight it, its ridiculous for anyone to suggest they want to save biro that much that they aren't prepared to write more than no on the form. The first clue is they give you a bloody great big box to write in and as Charlie says in the information they suggest you write a little more than one word answers. Its a bit like going to a job interview and just answering yes or no doesn't help much though it may answer the question The bloody great box is there in the event that you answer 'yes' and so need to add details of how you came by the information. If a questions asks you whether you have any knowledge of something and your answer is no then it's difficult to see how that can be deemed as being insufficient. If you don't know something then logically there is nothing further you can add. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedster Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 It's like talking to a brick wall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 The form is a single sheet of A4, the guidance notes on filling it in are on the *front* of that form - I know that because I read the form at the link I posted before I posted that reply. No where do they say that one word answers are not acceptable. If I'm wrong on that then please post the excerpt from the form which says this. I posted one of the questions contained in the form the illustrate the fact that an answer consisting simply of the word 'no' satisfies the question. J. Ah, but if you had an original to hand, such as the one sent in the renewal pack, you would see that printed on the back is a guide to referees on how to complete the form in which it clearly states single word answers such as the "no" you suggest are unacceptable. Which is why it says on the front of form C "Please see the Notes for Guidance for the completion of this form overleaf". Why do you continually argue with people, would it not be better to give posters the benefit of the doubt and check the facts rather than jumping in feet first and making a complete fool of yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Ah, but if you had an original to hand, such as the one sent in the renewal pack, you would see that printed on the back is a guide to referees on how to complete the form in which it clearly states single word answers such as the "no" you suggest are unacceptable. Which is why it says on the front of form C "Please see the Notes for Guidance for the completion of this form overleaf". Why do you continually argue with people, would it not be better to give posters the benefit of the doubt and check the facts rather than jumping in feet first and making a complete fool of yourself. No, sorry, you are wrong. It's not 'form C', where the wording you quote is taken from it's part C of the referee form, (form 125) which is the BACK of the form. The 'guidance overleaf' refers to the guidance notes on the FRONT of the form. The form I linked to IS the official form. Nowhere in those guidance notes, nor anywhere else on the form, does it say that one word answers are unnacceptable. As I asked before, if I'm wrong on that then please show me the precise wording which says that. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Threads getting a bit silly now. The Feo asked for elaboration, he got it. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Threads getting a bit silly now. The Feo asked for elaboration, he got it. Karpman Just out of interest, I'm genuinely curious, what elaboration on 'no' was needed? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I don't no. You have all the information I have. I am not going to put him on th spot by asking either. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxie Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Kent police FEO`s are now telling applicants that one word answers by referees will not be accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Kent police FEO`s are now telling applicants that one word answers by referees will not be accepted. So in answer to Q15 that I posted they are saying that 'no' is unnacceptable but 'no, none' is acceptable? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 for ****s sake jono you have taken pedantic to an all new level with that reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Questions 15, 16, 17 and 18 · These questions should be answered fully and to the best of your ability. You are effectively giving a reference for the applicant and therefore answers such as ‘no’, ‘none’ or ‘not applicable’ should not be used. For example ‘No known medical or emotional problems or alcohol dependency’; ‘A stable family life’. · If you have been asked to act as a referee and have any doubts about the applicant’s fitness, please telephone 01727 796126. Your comments will be treated confidentially. · Endorse the reverse of one of the applicant’s photographs with the following words: ‘I certify that this is a current true likeness of (add the name of applicant)’ Add your signature and the date the likeness was compared. \This comes from the Herts police advice to referees and quite clearly sets out their stance on it Johno can you stop arguing black is white and just have a little common sense for a moment. I know RFD's are generally a little special but you are taking it a little far http://www.herts.police.uk/advice/firearms_licensing/application_forms.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 No, sorry, you are wrong. It's not 'form C', where the wording you quote is taken from it's part C of the referee form, (form 125) which is the BACK of the form. The 'guidance overleaf' refers to the guidance notes on the FRONT of the form. The form I linked to IS the official form. Nowhere in those guidance notes, nor anywhere else on the form, does it say that one word answers are unnacceptable. As I asked before, if I'm wrong on that then please show me the precise wording which says that. J. Now argue with this.......................... Notes of Guidance. Completion of Referee Form 125. Your responses, comments and observations are of vital importance in assisting the Police in assessing the suitability of applicants to possess firearms. It is vitally important that you carefully read the notes and conditions on completing the Referee Form to reduce delays in the renewals process. Attention should be drawn to section C, particularly to questions 15, 16, 17 and 18. The information given in your answers should be full and comprehensive; answers such as “NO”, “NOT KNOWN” and “NOT APPLICABLE” should be avoided. Answers of this nature indicate that you may have insufficient knowledge of the applicant to complete the form and in which case you should not offer to act as a Referee. As a Referee we expect an opinion of a positive or negative nature of the applicant, indicating how long you have known the applicant, any medical knowledge and their personal circumstances. The Referee Form MUST be returned to the Firearms Licensing Department within 28 days and should NOT be returned to the applicant. All information supplied will be treated in strictest confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 bet he does Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxie Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 It`s all gone quiet,he must be having his dinner..I hope his wife has put the correct number of peas on his plate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Now argue with this.......................... Notes of Guidance. Completion of Referee Form 125. Your responses, comments and observations are of vital importance in assisting the Police in assessing the suitability of applicants to possess firearms. It is vitally important that you carefully read the notes and conditions on completing the Referee Form to reduce delays in the renewals process. Attention should be drawn to section C, particularly to questions 15, 16, 17 and 18. The information given in your answers should be full and comprehensive; answers such as “NO”, “NOT KNOWN” and “NOT APPLICABLE” should be avoided. Answers of this nature indicate that you may have insufficient knowledge of the applicant to complete the form and in which case you should not offer to act as a Referee. As a Referee we expect an opinion of a positive or negative nature of the applicant, indicating how long you have known the applicant, any medical knowledge and their personal circumstances. The Referee Form MUST be returned to the Firearms Licensing Department within 28 days and should NOT be returned to the applicant. All information supplied will be treated in strictest confidence. And would you like to tell us where that came from because it is NOT from form 125, contrary to what you have been saying. If it is not on the form then it is NOT part of the official application process and no refereee can be expected to know that it even exists. If it's something an individual force has invented then that is precisely the point we are discussing; licensing departments making up their own rules which are not derived from the Act or the Firearms Rules created under it. J. bet he does Charlie Too right I will! J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) Questions 15, 16, 17 and 18 \This comes from the Herts police advice to referees and quite clearly sets out their stance on it Johno can you stop arguing black is white and just have a little common sense for a moment. I know RFD's are generally a little special but you are taking it a little far http://www.herts.police.uk/advice/firearms_licensing/application_forms.aspx As pointed out; this is a document drawn up by the police, it is not official guidance or instruction on how to fill out the form. If the home office didn't want referees to give one word answers then they would have said that on the form but, contrary to what CharlieT insists, they didn't. Perhaps they didn't include that because they thought it ridiculous to insist on pointlesss extra padding to an answer declaring that you don't have any knowledge of a particular subject? Sending a form back out for someone to pad-out an answer with more words simply for the sake of adding more words which offer nothing to the content of your answer is a waste of money and police time. It's the little things like this which end up pushing up costs for certificate holders. J. Edited July 31, 2013 by JonathanL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Jonathan - why do your contributions invariably involve challenging what the Police say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Jonathan - why do your contributions invariably involve challenging what the Police say? Gordon - why do your contributions invariably involve me personally, rather than the subject at hand? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Jonathan - I noticed that this thread was blossoming and popped in to have a look. I was not necessarily expecting to find you on here. When I did, to my complete surprise, I found you being pedantic for just about the millionth time. I post on many threads, shooting, guns and equipment, cartridges, etc. You seem to post only in this section. My contributions are many and add some positive thoughts, rather than your negative slant on just about everything. Don't take it personally, I really don't think you merit that level of attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Don't take it personally, I really don't think you merit that level of attention. You clearly do given the amount of comment you direct at me personally. You seem to be building quite an obsession for me. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I think everybody finds your obviously incorrect arguments and use of "logic" quite hard to fathom johno We have facts here some forces aren't accepting single word statements as backed up by Herts and beds here, charliet's and a few others. Are they unusual or is it just you that gets away with saving biro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 al4x - on the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karpman Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 All I wanted to know is do you think this would affect my application lol. I appreciate all your input but let's not fall out over it. I have resigned my self to the fact it's just another waiting game and what will be will be, I thought I picked the right referees. A very good shooting pal and a pal who knows me socially in and out. Maybe I should of though it through a little more. Fair play to Leicestershire police mind. The application was handed straight to Feo last Thursday and the refrences were posted first class same day. The refree got it back Tuesday. Hoping I may here something next week if I'm lucky. Karpman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Karpman - good luck with the application. I think the Police are a little more understanding than the odd one on here. Personally, I have never seen a problem staying on the right side of someone who I want something from. If they ask for a little more - so what? If it helps the application, who would object? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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