Ammo storage

[JOHN BOY]

Hi guys just a thought,after a trip out shooting do any of you leave your ammo in the magazine when you lock it away in the ammo safe .Obviously weapon is unloaded straight after shooting and ammo is stored separate from it.

[r1steele]

I don't as it keeps the spring inside the magazine compressed and could lead to eventual failure. I know this probably won't happen but it only takes second to empty/reload. There is also the fact that some people view a magazine with ammo in it as a loaded rifle even though it isn't actually in the rifle, not sure how you stand on that one.

[JOHN BOY]

Thanks bud, strange one that tho if its not on the rifle.

Edited August 24, 2013 by JOHN BOY

[r1steele]

That's what I thought but I have heard it somewhere before (doesn't mean it's true) so I don't take any chances.

 

Can anyone throw any light on this???

Edited August 24, 2013 by r1steele

[Livefast123]

Personally I don't as I feel it increases the risk of an accident when reinserting......however far fetched that idea may be. When i'm at the range you have to show your magazine as being clear to the RCO before you are allowed to bag the gun, so I guess I have also got used to clearing it.

 

I don't think it would look to good if you were stopped on the way to shooting with the mag loaded albeit in a separate location.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Livefast123

[Dougy]

No.

 

I did once by mistake, and believe me I don't ever want to do that again. It had been weeks since I last took the rifle out of the cabinet, a mate's dad had a look at it ( a shooter) and I handed over the bolt in it went and then we heard it.

 

The click of a mighty 30.06 round being picked up from the magazine.

 

So no I don't EVER.

[castletyne]

Mag is emptied and then put back in the rifle

 

I used to leave the magazine out but I had a habit of forgetting it

[CharlieT]

As I carry a rifle with me most days at work I have always left ammo in the magazine and locked it in the top box at night. Good quality sprung steel should not weaken from being compressed and non of my magazines has suffered. The only ones I empty are the blind box ones.

[jasduck]

dont know if this is right or not but i was told the mag is classed as a fire arm the same as a bolt is. even when there not in the gun so if the police stopped you you still have a loaded fire arm even tho the mag is not in the rifle

[CharlieT]

dont know if this is right or not but i was told the mag is classed as a fire arm the same as a bolt is. even when there not in the gun so if the police stopped you you still have a loaded fire arm even tho the mag is not in the rifle

 

I too have heard this bandied about. My usual answer is to ask them to point out exactly where it says this in the firearms act.

 

Incidentally, bolts are a controlled part but magazines are not.

[wymberley]

 

 

Can anyone throw any light on this???

Possibly. It just depends on whether the relevant piece in Section 19 of the 1968 Firearms Act is still valid - not to mention how you interpret it - but also the fact that unless your gun cabinet is in a public place, it's totally academic anyway. Where I shoot is a private farm but it has a farm shop which, when open, makes the area a public place in law, so to err on the side of caution, at the relevant times I always remove and empty the mag.

 

Now, I'm not saying I'm right - I just do what I do to be on the safe side - but as ever with the law rumour has got hold of it. 'Under Section19, it is an offence for a person without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to have a loaded shotgun or loaded air weapon or any other firearm, loaded or not, together with suitable ammunition for that firearm in a public place.'

 

It then goes on to define "public place". I would imagine that we're all familiar with the above. But then it goes on:

 

'A shotgun or an air weapon (NB my reference does not actually include 'firearm', but as above, "any other firearm" is tagged on at the end) is deemed to be 'loaded' if the ammunition is in the chamber or barrel or is in a magazine or other device in a position capable of being fed into the weapon.'

 

That would appear to be the definition 'in law' which is probably not the same as we would define it in normal use.

 

Make of it what you will, it's just that I don't fancy being the one to test it.

[CharlieT]

 

........... is deemed to be 'loaded' if the ammunition is in the chamber or barrel or is in a magazine or other device in a position capable of being fed into the weapon.'

 

That would appear to be the definition 'in law' which is probably not the same as we would define it in normal use.

 

 

And therein lies the answer, a loaded magazine in your pocket or your ammo safe for that matter (presuming your ammo safe was in a public place) does not place the ammunition in a place capable of being fed into the firearm.

[wymberley]

And therein lies the answer, a loaded magazine in your pocket or your ammo safe for that matter (presuming your ammo safe was in a public place) does not place the ammunition in a place capable of being fed into the firearm.

Tend to agree, Charlie. Except that with a charged magazine, some smart ***** lawyer could argue that the ammunition is now in a position to be fed into the weapon - does weapon mean chamber, barrel or magazine housing or just plain weapon.

 

Hopefully, the situation will just remain academic.

[JonathanL]

That's what I thought but I have heard it somewhere before (doesn't mean it's true) so I don't take any chances.

 

Can anyone throw any light on this???

 

There is something in one of the Firearms Acts somewhere which says that the gun is loaded if a cartridge can be inserted into the chambervia any manual or automatic means or words to that effect. Basically, it means that if the magazine is attached to the gun and a round can be chambered from it then legally the gun is loaded. So, if you were in public with it you would need to demonstrate lawful authority or reasonable excuse for having a loaded firearm in your possession. If it isn't in the gun then the gun, legally, is unloaded.

 

I agree with the other posters that it is bad practice in general to leave ammunition in magazines, even detachable ones which are kept separately, as it increases the risk of accidents. If you are on a range you will normally find that the RCO will not declare your gun clear unless the magazine has been detached and emptied of ammo.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

dont know if this is right or not but i was told the mag is classed as a fire arm the same as a bolt is. even when there not in the gun so if the police stopped you you still have a loaded fire arm even tho the mag is not in the rifle

 

That is categorically wrong. It would only be subject to control if it were a component part. It is not a component part as it is not a part essential to it being a firearm (a part without which it could not discharge a missile with lethal force).

 

Having said that, magazines are controlled in Northern Ireland, I believe.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

Tend to agree, Charlie. Except that with a charged magazine, some smart ***** lawyer could argue that the ammunition is now in a position to be fed into the weapon - does weapon mean chamber, barrel or magazine housing or just plain weapon.

 

Hopefully, the situation will just remain academic.

 

It isn't 'in a position' to be fed into the weapon if it is in a magazine which is in your pocket.

 

In the case of a firearm other than a shotgun, there is also that piece of wording which makes it an offence to have ammunition suitable for use with the firearm in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. So, even if there is no ammo in the magazine you can still be done merely for possessing the two together.

 

J.

[wymberley]

 

It isn't 'in a position' to be fed into the weapon if it is in a magazine which is in your pocket.

 

In the case of a firearm other than a shotgun, there is also that piece of wording which makes it an offence to have ammunition suitable for use with the firearm in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. So, even if there is no ammo in the magazine you can still be done merely for possessing the two together.

 

J.

Again, hopefully academic, but what if the "in a position" was used in the sense of, "in a state". A charged magazine is in a state that the ammunition can be fed into a weapon.

[JOHN BOY]

Well people thanks for the input , The impression I get then is its ok legally as long as the magazine is not on the weapon ie in your bergan, but not from a safety point off view as dougy found out it can increase the chance of a accident ,it was just a thought to save a bit off time but not if it could cause a accident .

[CharlieT]

Again, hopefully academic, but what if the "in a position" was used in the sense of, "in a state". A charged magazine is in a state that the ammunition can be fed into a weapon.

I which case would my single shot weapon be in such a state if I had a round in my pocket.

 

The definition of position "a place where someone or something is located or has been put"

Ergo the charged magazine must be placed in the weapon for the weapon to be loaded.

 

As you say, all academic but fun debating never the less.

[r1steele]

I think most people would agree that a loaded magazine in your pocket doesn't constitute as a loaded firearm, but we all know how certain police forces and FEO's read the guidelines then manipulate them to suit themselves.

[CharlieT]

They can whistle all they like.

 

I'm right they would be wrong.

[HW682]

Charlie T is right as usual on this I believe.

 

The legal side to this (as opposed to safety or good practice) was debated in a previous thread http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/163675-loaded-mags-in-public-places/

 

I summary, my opinion is that:

1) a magazine isn't a firearm

2) a magazine on it's own cannot be "loaded"

 

[therefore a magazine can not be a loaded firearm]

 

 

3) it doesn't matter in law whether a firearm (other than shotgun) is loaded or not anyway.

[JonathanL]

Again, hopefully academic, but what if the "in a position" was used in the sense of, "in a state". A charged magazine is in a state that the ammunition can be fed into a weapon.

 

Sorry, don't agree. It isn't 'in a state' because it isn't in the part of the weapon where the ammo can be fed from it into the weapon.

 

J.