demonwolf444 Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) Hi, I would like to load some black powder cartridges for a 12G that was originally proofed for black powder but is now also nitro proofed as i don't have a black powder license is it possible to load cartridges with pyrodex RS? I have some basic equipment to seat primers and make a crimp, but i don't know how many grains of pyrodex i should put in a cartridge ( if i should be doing it at all. ) Has anybody tried this? I use pyrodex in a 54cal smooth bore muzzle loader and use about 70 grains for a shotgun load which seems to work ok, but i don't know where to start grain wise for a 12G load with. I have old books that say 3 - 3 1/2 drams, which is around 80-90 grains? which seems a bit much? but thought i would ask the experts first. Edited August 31, 2013 by demonwolf444 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 just hold on there, black powder substitutes are always volumetric. not weighed. you need a powder mesure flask. set at 3 drams or so. the classic loads are anywhere between 2.5-3 drams of powder (that is volumetricly mesured, do not weigh on a scale). and 1,1/8oz of shot. the only weighing you should do, is powder flask mesure 3 drams, then weigh this on a balance to see how many grains it it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted August 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) I have a powder flask that has a pistol nozzle on it that does a volumetric measure of 25 grain's of black powder. Using this i have made powder scoops for 50, 75 and 100 grains ( by volume ) which i use with the muzzle loader if that clears things up! I know about the weight difference between pyrodex and black powder, but generally black powder is measured by volume not by weight, so i'm sorry if when i said grains i confused you. In an old book i picked up on cartridges; it states that a dram is equal to 875/32 grains. 875 / 32 = roughly 27.3 grains. So three drams is equivalent to 82 grains? So if i were to load a cartridge with pyrodex RS with 82 grains measured volumetrically not by weight, with 1,1/8 oz of shot would that be okay? Thanks for replying cookoff! Edited August 31, 2013 by demonwolf444 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Pyrodex is more powerful than BP weight for weight. DO NOT USE THE SAME WEIGHT PYRO AS YOU WOULD BP! It is roughly 25% less in weight terms compared to black powder. E.g. 100grns of black fitted into a measure and then the measure filled with pyro......the pyro would weigh around 75grns. The simplist rule for muzzleloading shot guns and also carries over to cartridges with black powder od subs is a balanced load. if you want to load 1oz(28g) of shot, what ever measure holds that amount of shot use the same measure for your powder, black powder or pyro. Best results usually result from slightly more shot than powder.....but not always! Clean your barrels with boiling water, you should use lots of water to remove the salts from the pyro, it is more corrosive than BP. The boiling water will lift any lead too with a tight patch. Next thing you want to experiment with is adding lube to wads but that will do for another time. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharf Rat Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 I bent my head trying to work this out for weeks. I scoured books and loading sites, downloading conversion charts for various grades of powder and substitutes and finally worked out two loads. One was a clay load between 3/4oz and 7/8oz. One was a 1 1/4oz hunting load. The clay load was a pathetic squib, the hunting load I fired once at a pattern plate, it blew a massive donut shaped ring... I then went back to what Underdog says, with a square load i.e. equal scoop of powder to shot. Marvelous. Lee do a plastic adjustable scoop measuring from 1oz to 1 5/8oz for less than a fiver, or a set of plastic scoops in various volumes for around £10. Don't use 777 in a cartridge though. It is very fast for a substitute and needs a 15% volume reduction and associated messing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmonster Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Why on earth would you want to when its nitro proofed anyway ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted August 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) Its mainly because the gun in question is extremely light weight and I have always thought black powder and pyrodex have a slightly more gentle recoil compared to nitro, so really I just wanted to load a couple of cartridges and see what the recoil is like. With some nitro 30g 6's the recoil is by no means unbearable, but after a day of pheasant shooting I think I'm going to know about it. Ill never load up enough to actually take out on a day with me, i just want to see if its worth driving to the nearest gun shop that stocks 2 1/2 inch black powder cartridges ( im sure you can still get them ) Just thought it would be different and fun as well. Thanks for the advice Underdog! ill work out a square load and see how i get on. Really loving muzzle loading when you drop a rabbit or pigeon with one its twice as rewarding because you have put so much more into the whole process. No stranger to the clean up though; its a good half hour or more till I'm satisfied. Edited August 31, 2013 by demonwolf444 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 My shooting buddy was given some b.p. cart s (hunting) which he passed on to me - I used them in my semi auto and the clean up was pretty bad! They're absolutely filthy things! Though I guess an o/ u or sXs would be much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Its mainly because the gun in question is extremely light weight and I have always thought black powder and pyrodex have a slightly more gentle recoil compared to nitro, so really I just wanted to load a couple of cartridges and see what the recoil is like. With some nitro 30g 6's the recoil is by no means unbearable, but after a day of pheasant shooting I think I'm going to know about it. Ill never load up enough to actually take out on a day with me, i just want to see if its worth driving to the nearest gun shop that stocks 2 1/2 inch black powder cartridges ( im sure you can still get them ) Just thought it would be different and fun as well. Thanks for the advice Underdog! ill work out a square load and see how i get on. Really loving muzzle loading when you drop a rabbit or pigeon with one its twice as rewarding because you have put so much more into the whole process. No stranger to the clean up though; its a good half hour or more till I'm satisfied. just reload subsonics in #4 soft like a kitty ! hits like a freight train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted September 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Got all the info i need now, ill load a couple and see what i think. If not ill just see what they have in the gunshops and try a few different types of carts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Prepare to take a mortgage out for commercial BP carts though.....around £19.95 for 25 around here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Why on earth would you want to when its nitro proofed anyway ?. Lol....it's called FUN,,,it's in the dictionary. Then there is; DIFFERENT...look them up lol Last time out with my muzzle loader I got me 16 woodies....they were worth 160 with a cartridge gun to me! The look on other guns faces on a driven day when you down nice birds with a front stuffer or BP cartridges. The doughnut patterns are caused by the huge volume of gas pushing the wad in the back of the shot on leaving the the muzzle. Splitting the wad up into two or three pieces can stop that. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Very interesting thread. Personally I hate the stuff it stinks, lays an unbelievable amount of crud in your tube and loads of smoke. Give me recoil any day LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Just use BP! The licence dont cost a penny so you dont have an excuse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 There is the brass shell option! However, you will have to use a larger wad or cards....around 11g. They are available! I made a punch and a stack of thin cards either side of a 12g wad works too. Not doing this will not allow a good burn and low velocity due to just having an overshot card glued in the top (nail varnish). A crimped plastic shell gets a good burn instantly however. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.