spandit Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 ...the law won, well, sort of. To summarise as quickly as possible, I applied for an intial FAC (with coterminous SGC) for .22LR, .17HMR and a cheeky ask for a .243, expecting the latter to be refused but was told that I could have it if I jumped through a load of hoops. To do so may have taken months and would have delayed getting my licence at all. It's obvious that they didn't want to refuse me the calibre as I'd be able to appeal that. Met up with the Licencing officer today at a game fair, on the BASC stand. We eventually compromised that I'd drop my request for the .243 and change it to a .223, so I could get my application processed immediately. He said that in a few months my centrefire experience would enable me to progress to a higher calibre and I wanted it for fox anyway initially. Happened to be speaking to a solicitor and he said I could take them to court, spend a lot of money and in 6 months get my .243 and probably a black mark on my record, or accept the .223 and in 6 months get the .243 anyway Spoke of my experiences at the BDS stand and one of them was furious, the other reckoned I was doing the right thing by playing the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) Ah Sussex, sounds familiar! I would be very interested indeed to hear of their reasons for granting one centerfire of 223 and not a 243, and how / why on earth they thought that a few months and an unspecified number of shots with the former would suddenly mean that you could safely have the other without endangering public safety. There is absolutely nothing in the firearms act to support their interpretation of course, a safe backstop for a 223 is the same as a safe backstop for a 243! This is exactly the sort of ammunition (pardon the pun) we need to take these people to task , so please if they put this in writing please let me know ASAP. David Edited October 6, 2013 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 What hoops did they want for .243? As David states safety wise there is no reason a .223 is safer in your hands than a .243...... They are making the assumption about bigger numbers meaning something they don't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 David, I knew you'd be up in arms (pardon the pun!). The officer in question seemed to be under pressure from his superior. He mentioned a "line drawn in the sand" with regards to deer calibres. From what I understand, this is a Sussex thing and I know BASC may be disappointed that I've effectively accepted a refusal but I did speak to a BASC rep on the stand and in conversations with your colleague in firearms, I was finding it hard to get definitive advice. I will let you know the outcome, of course, but frankly I'm just keen to get practicing on rabbits and foxes rather than fighting the police who, although they may not be directly applying the law as you understand it, have ways and means to be obstructive that are very difficult to overcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 What hoops did they want for .243? As David states safety wise there is no reason a .223 is safer in your hands than a .243...... They are making the assumption about bigger numbers meaning something they don't! It was like banging my head against a brick wall. They want me to have some experience, whether by attending a firearms course, a DSC1 or some mentored stalking. This is in line with the Home Office guidelines, in fairness. Quite why they deem a round that is pretty much identical to the one the army uses to kill people with safer than a slightly bigger one, I don't know. I got the impression it wasn't his free choice and arguing about it would only delay things further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I will have a chat with my colleagues in the morning, Sussex do seem to be one of more awkward authorities who are currently not applying the law as it was intended but making arbitrary judgements that make no sense at all! As I say send me the details of what you were being asked to do and who told you, did they out anything in writing? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I don't know how much shooting experience you have, but I'd just accept it and be thankful you got any CF at all. You'll have plenty to be getting on with by learning the different capabilities of the LR, HMR and shotgun first. Do you really need the larger caliber right now anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I don't know how much shooting experience you have, but I'd just accept it and be thankful you got any CF at all. You'll have plenty to be getting on with by learning the different capabilities of the LR, HMR and shotgun first. Do you really need the larger caliber right now anyway? That's exactly my viewpoint. Why go through the hassle for a rifle that won't see as much use as the RF or SG anyway? If deer come onto my land and start eating my tree saplings. I know a man who can help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Gloucestershire force a similar approach, well they did when I wanted my first 243. It all boils down to 'good reason to possess', I didnt find BASC very helpful really, they just suggested I play the game and get some experience. From the police point of few they see the 223 as a good fox calibre, a 243 a fox and deer calibre (though the guidelines state it could be a better calibre in more open areas were wind could be more of a problem). As for safety it could be argued that a 308 is no more dangerous than a 223, in matter of fact all centrefires are as dangerous as each other. It you are shooting fox's and Munties do you really need a rifle that will shoot 100g bullets? To be honest I think the want for 243 is more driven by the fact its harder to get the variation than the real need, you only start to realise to true meaning of individual calibres when you have been shooting a while and the 'wanting' is long gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Had a reply back from my FEO already - looks like the .223 is a goer. Let's hope the processing is as quick as they promise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Overall it seem that all's well that ends well, but if anything else crops up you know where I am, same goes for anyone else of course! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Don't worry, I had a friend who was refused a .308 for land cleared for .270. The logic was something along the lines that Bigger number = more dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 I suspect they didn't want me going out and shooting deer because the kind of ranges involved are quite high and there is a lot of tourism on the Ashdown Forest that would lessen if inexperienced people were leaving wounded deer around or shooting dog walkers. Shooting foxes tends to be on more private farmland and at shorter range... Not sure, but FEO seems to be satisfied and has sent my application on for processing with the .223. I just hope I don't run out of foxes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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