New cooper .223

[Guest Mr Pieman]

Conor, no worms to open mate You are entitled to your opinion, as am I. Still, the subject raised a few interesting comments and brightened up a dull, windy and wet Friday evening

[stirky]

I think we have had enough form this photo/topic, i will continue to take longer range humaine kills on vermin, rabbits/crows, with the .223 providing i am happy with the shot before pulling the trigger, i will also continue to shoot vermin, rabbits crows at closer range with whatever gun i choose, it matters not if it is done in the name of sport/hobby or ? thats only a name we choose to call it.

Good point conor, i kill rabbits (free) as pest/vermin control simply to reduce numbers wheather its done at 50 or 250yds

Just a final thought, if the rabbit was @50 yds with the .223 i would not have included a (gory) photo, but i get the feeling someone would have jumped in with comments about it being too close and not a suitable range for that calibre.

Cant wait for the comments about a 638yds shot with a 6mm br.

[markbivvy]

Cant wait for the comments about a 638yds shot with a 6mm br.

 

good man.

happy new year to you.

[conor]

50yds! that would be nasty! could you put up another pic of the rifle?

[Frank]

Ok, i have witnessed and seen for my own eyes, a remington poice rifle, put a .243 Amax bullet, into 3 shot half inch group, at 400yds.

 

After, this particular rifle, took 12 bunnys, at ranges from 250yds, to 412 yds, all 1 shot kills, no misses.

 

Show me the target i hear you say, i could show you any target, but how can i proove it, well i cant, you will just have to take my word for it, but, it can be done, with a lot of work and dedication, which results in satisfaction, at the end.

 

Frank.

[stirky]

I will, but i hope to get a sunny day to show it in a good light, that might take as many days as yards.

[conor]

thanks stirky no panic sure

[madmanx]

Stirky,will be round on Sunday morning to pick you up ,will bring my 6mmBR so we can try that 1000 yard shot we are after,but only if the field mice are out so we can be certain of a humane kill.Lovely Rifle Did you get it from Nigel at Simpsons of Shepshed?P S I would like to know how many people out there would admit to belly wacking a rabbit at 30 yards with a .22 rimmy or even worse a Air rifle and then watched the rabbit crawl off down the hole,at some time or an other we have ALL done it due to many different reasons,at least when you hit it with a centrefire it aint going nowhere

[stirky]

Ok Madmanix, what time will you be calling ? i hope the 6mm BR is a suitable calibre for the "wild" fieldmouse, 1000yds, i hope you are going for a headshot.

Do you mean NIGEL at SIMPSONS of SHEPSHED, great shop

[Frank]

 

Nice one lads.

 

Must try them feild mice me self, 1000yds sounds good, id say i would wack them with them American eagles no bother.

 

Frank.

[Doggone]

 

Nice one lads.

 

Must try them feild mice me self, 1000yds sounds good, id say i would wack them with them American eagles no bother.

 

Frank.

 

oops that didn't work

[deadeye ive]

P S I would like to know how many people out there would admit to belly wacking a rabbit at 30 yards with a .22 rimmy or even worse a Air rifle and then watched the rabbit crawl off down the hole,at some time or an other we have ALL done it due to many different reasons,at least when you hit it with a centrefire it aint going nowhere

 

Too true unfortunately

No matter how hard you try no one has a 100% clean kill record ................I also have a facsination with long range ............Invest the time on the ranges or land using targets and money on your set up (Including range finders and anemnometer) then why not take the shot .I know I would even though I can see Mr P,s point of view (Your suppose to get as close as possible ethics )has this is an open forum and readers with less experience might think they can do the same .......

 

 

A good shot Stirky ..............Must be a fine cross air ,whats it like under lamp conditions ?

[deadeye ive]

I'm doing what I'm paid to do - control rabbit numbers for farmers. It's not a 'sport' or 'hobby', although I enjoy it immensely - live with that, foolish boy

I can only think that sometimes your main input is to generate a reaction ........Totally uncalled for PP

[Frank]

Ive, you took the words out of my mouth, exactly my feeling.

 

PM, we have enough hassel in our sport, from antis ect, without you coming on here and bringing your great big wooden spoon for playing with.

 

Frank.

[Guest Mr Pieman]

I was hoping at least one of the 'long range boys' could give a reasoned arguement as to why this method of shooting was acceptable - that could then be passed to my neighbouring 'anti' that originally raised the issue in the pub the other evening. Unfortunately, no one has, other than the usual bleating of 'it's our sport', 'our choice' etc.

 

Perhaps I should have mentioned the question coming from an anti in the first place, but we should all be able to defend our actions if asked to do so.

 

To limit hassle from antis etc, try to have a reasoned arguement to justify actions.

[stirky]

As you said Mr Pieman "Can I ask a question - at the risk of proving unpopular", you have asked the question and "proved" you are un-popular.

I think everyone that has joined this debate, not argument, has give a good and valid reason as to why we coose to shoot "poor mr bunny" at whatever ranges we choose, i certainly do not have to justify my actions to any anti, just as i would not expect them to justify their actions for "being" anti on this forum, its down to personal choice and would prefer to leave them out of the forum and advise them to join "anties r us" or something like that, i must say that i have enjoyed this debate, and would like to appologise to all if they feel its time to bring it to a close and let us move on.

[markbivvy]

Jun 28 2005, 09:56 PM Post #18

 

 

Ace Pigeon Shooter

 

 

Group: Members

Posts: 649

Joined: 23-January 04

From: Ashburnham nr Battle, East Sussex

Member No.: 786

 

 

 

Could you get a 22-250 or 223 etc granted solely for shooting rabbits at distance? I think not

 

If you need to prove how good you are at the long shots, use paper, even a tin can if you wish.

other night in the pub. dont think so.

 

june 2005 mr p.

[Guest Mr Pieman]

Mark

 

you miss the point. It's because I don't like the method that I can't give my neighbour a valid explanation in the defence of the activity. I was rather hoping someone else might produce something 'first hand' as it were. Some hope, everyone runs off crying that they are being got at and gets all defensive.

 

I'll always fight my corner if I believe in the cause. I won't offer a defence to the long shot approach as I don't believe it myself (which you can see from my previous postings) - equally, I won't 'rubbish' the activity to the antis. I don't defend the 'catch fish and put them back' lobby either. This doesn't make me wrong, or the enemy. If I can't say anything positive to the anti (any anti) I'll say nothing. I don't believe in protecting the collective and it doesn't work, it merely dilutes our defences.

 

I am going to give the anti (a chap called Martin) the details of the site and ask him to register and ask his own questions. He is actually a reasonable sort of chap, but he won't be hogwashed. I have no doubt he'll ask some taxing questions, but as a professional person (he's a doctor) I am certain he won't ever be offensive as some antis have been in the past.

 

PW members appear to have taken the aged old union approach of united we stand and divided we fall. Well, we all know what happened to most of the unions don't we.

 

PP

[markbivvy]

Mark

 

you miss the point. It's because I don't like the method that I can't give my neighbour a valid explanation in the defence of the activity. I was rather hoping someone else might produce something 'first hand' as it were. Some hope, everyone runs off crying that they are being got at and gets all defensive.

 

I'll always fight my corner if I believe in the cause. I won't offer a defence to the long shot approach as I don't believe it myself (which you can see from my previous postings) - equally, I won't 'rubbish' the activity to the antis. I don't defend the 'catch fish and put them back' lobby either. This doesn't make me wrong, or the enemy. If I can't say anything positive to the anti (any anti) I'll say nothing. I don't believe in protecting the collective and it doesn't work, it merely dilutes our defences.

 

I am going to give the anti (a chap called Martin) the details of the site and ask him to register and ask his own questions. He is actually a reasonable sort of chap, but he won't be hogwashed. I have no doubt he'll ask some taxing questions, but as a professional person (he's a doctor) I am certain he won't ever be offensive as some antis have been in the past.

 

PW members appear to have taken the aged old union approach of united we stand and divided we fall. Well, we all know what happened to most of the unions don't we.

 

PP

 

sorry mr p

i did not see anyone running away from a discussion , its the same every time you post, the name calling. people dont want to listen to you when you start that.personally iam thick skinned you can call me all day, and you only show your self up. why should we have to justify any legal activity to any one let alone another shooter. if you can justify the mass murder of so many rabbits to your doctor mate and he exepts it, iam sure a few on here could put him right on taking a few long range bunnies. iam still not clear on the bit you find offensive the long range or damage done. if its the range bit , have to never taken a rabbit thats a bit far out with your .22 rimmie.

if its damage,why do you use the rifle you do for fox when they can be done with a smaller cal.i have been through 20 odd pages of your posts, and i still stand by what i said ,your a hypocrite. sorry if it offends you, but reading your last post only confirms it to me.

[pin]

This "discussion" is pointless.

 

At its heart is this simple issue - Mr Pieman doesn't think shooting bunnies at long range with cf rifles is acceptable.

 

Problem here is that it's an opinion. Opinions will always differ. For example, I can't see the issue either morally, ethically or any other way to consider it.

 

Every rifle shooter takes on board the responsibility of ensuring before the trigger is pulled the shot is safe, humane and within his abilities. Looks to me like stirky did just that, and a fine shot it was.

 

Mr Pieman has decided to read between the lines and conclude that this shot was somehow involved in the process of setting up the rifle. Now, we don't have enough information to either prove or disprove that so lets either ask stirky to comment, or stick to what we know

 

I personally don't see the difference between a rabbit ferreted and quickly dispached, shot with a 12b as it bolts, shot with a .22 rim lamped or not, at 150yds with an HMR (nobody says anything about this strangely) or at 250+ with a capable and well considered CF combination like stirky used.

 

We are all entitled to an opinion, and it looks like Mr Pieman and Stirky disagree slightly, but there are no grounds for either being rubbished legally, ethically or morally in my view.

 

This might well continue, but when you are trading opinion, there is unlikely to be any ground given by either side

[stirky]

Pin, "After careful barrel run in, and testing some home loads, i found the 50gr Vmax to shoot very well." the testing was done on paper over a period of time to get the best accuracy from this bullet/powder combination, the scope is a leupold 4.5-14x50 varmint hunter reticule, and the shot taken from a solid bipod rest, i have twice tried to close this topic and again appologised for the continuation of this issue. Thanks for the points raised pin i hope i have done all i can to help build up the picture of all information possible.

To Mr pieman, i know your point was not aimed at me personaly, although it would only have been aimed at someone else in the future, it is that i chose to pick up the gauntlet and enjoy the debate on the forum, in no way am i defending my self, i will do the same again when conditions are right for a shot of that distance wheather its at "poor Mr bunny" or any other kind of vermin with suitable bullet/cartridge.

[JRDS]

Stirky you are v v naughty for killing that poor little wabbit without looking it in the eye .

[kip270]

Nice rifle Stirky and a good shot.

 

A few months ago i wondered about long range shooting, and after seeing some good long range dvd's i am now in no doubt about the ethics of it. If the person behind the trigger is sure they can make the shot, then why not. People who hunt long range don't just go out and think i'll have a go, a lot of time is spent on paper or other targets at these ranges before they shoot at any quarry.

 

Mr P, how many pigeons have you had a go at that were really out of range, honestly, we all have and anyone who say's otherwise need's to get a laser range finder, you will be amazed how far off you are.

 

Here are a few questions, who has the answers??

 

Why do we go into space?

 

Why do we climb the highest mountains?

 

Why do we sail the great oceans?

 

Why do we build huge buildings?

 

Why do we fly planes?

 

Why do we shoot long range?

[Frank]

Agree 110% Kip.

 

It takes a hell of a lot pf practice, to be able to shoot loooooong range.

 

I was so inspired with this thread, that i went and shot a rat, at 124 yds, with my CZ . 22lr.

Heart and lung shot, all worked out before hand.

 

Mr Pie Man, have you ever wounded a rabbit and had it run off to die?

I have, happens to us all sir and as you seem to shoot tray fulls of them, im sure your not an angel.

 

Frank.

[topade]

Stirky Its great to see you have had such good success with your new gun and a little disapointed to hear a few numty comments about shooting a rabbit (Unless it was in the city of london The Isles of Scilly and Skokholm Island) as under the pests act 1954 the whole of England and Wales Occupiers of land have a continuing obligation to kill any wild rabbit living on or resorting to their land. And i fail to see how over kill has any presance in the word humane. Happy new year Nigel