walt1980 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Called in to see a local rfd, small shop, he asked if I'd heard of any other rfd's that have heard they need to be on computer by the end of 2014 to do all gun sales and transfers so they don't have to fill in the paper forms? I hadn't but can see the sense of it with the way technology is going. But both the calls were from computer software companies offering him their programmes so he was suspicious! Didn't know if any others had been contacted by software companies or anyone else officially about it? Would of thought if it happened it'd be more like logging on to a bank account with a password and a code generator thingy on a website than totally different software?? Saying that computers aren't really my thing! Any help would be great, and will pass it on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanl50 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Which shop was this - Stuart Clays? Im off to Truelocks and Essex Shooting supplies at the weekend Ill ask them. Alan Edited December 17, 2013 by Alanl50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt1980 Posted December 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Yeah be handy, was chatting to Andy and he said about it? Think truelock have computers for stock control and bits but wasn't sure about transfers?! He's gonna wait til he gets official word anyway but just wondered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 I started off with the Gun Trader software package when my RFD came through, so it was quite easy to enter the stock as it came in. When I attended the gun trade exhibition at Stoneleigh a couple of months ago I did hear that all RFDs would have to be computerised in the near future. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt1980 Posted December 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Ahh ok so maybe some truth in it, I'm assuming that package has a part which uploads transfers to the firearms dept? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Takes a bit of setting up initially, then its simple. I've no idea where Woodbridge is, but if you or your mate want a demo let me know. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt1980 Posted December 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 No worries, might get on to them and try n drag him into this millennium lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 GunTrader contacted me telling me the same think but nothing from police yet!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanl50 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 No worries, might get on to them and try n drag him into this millennium Let me know when your going to attempt this mammoth feat I must watch, lol Andy in this century lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt1980 Posted December 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Managed to get the shop on here! Although he doesn't actually do much to it (struggles with his phone let alone anything else) on twitter as well and slowly getting some stock on gun watch! Which is working well so far! Probably up to about 1998 now so getting there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 IT would make sense if properly implemented (like RFD's being able to do straight 1 for 1 etc) I am sure it will come eventually and better to be prepared and 90% there than 0% there and having to rush to meet a deadline. Will FLO allow the RFD register to be electronic only? Or do you have to keep a paper/hardcopy too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 It's an EU directive. Records of all gun sales to be held electronically by end of next year and must be retained for twenty years. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Have you a link to the directive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Under Directive 2008/51/EC EU Members are required to register every firearm, and by December 2014 they must establish and maintain a computerized data-filing system that allows designated authorities access to registered firearms. Firearms records, such as make, model, serial number, supplier’s information, and data on the person who acquires or possesses a firearm, are required to be kept for a minimum of twenty years. BASC is working with the Home Office to ensure that dealers aren’t disadvantaged and have time to implement the changes. We welcome new trade partner Epos Link who are offering BASC Trade Members a 10% discount on new sales. Their product range includes a fully featured Point of Sale and Sales Order Processing package plus ‘Gun Tracker’ a sophisticated electronic Gun Register. All of which are fully integrated and can be linked to an ecommerce website to give retailers the ultimate software package tailored to their needs. With EposLink you have the benefit of a suite of retail software from one supplier all of which integrates seamlessly. More info on the package for trade members here: http://www.eposlink.co.uk/ David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 David does the does the national firearms database not cover the requirements of the directive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Its at the trade end that the registration needs to be done and held electronically, and this is part of the issue, the HO have NOT confirmed exactly what records need to be kept etc, although logic would surely be that there would be no more required than rfd's currently need to do with paper records.. Having said that alot of traders are going over to electric managment systems anyway. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Interesting. Means RFDs will all have to read up on and comply with the Data Protection Act as well I guess. And get IT infrastructure in place, and think about data security, and disaster recovery, and so on. Could be a costly exercise for the less IT savvy who need to buy in a service to do it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Hmm reads far more like a government mandate to me. "Under Directive 2008/51/EC EU Members are required to register every firearm, and by December 2014 they must establish and maintain a computerized data-filing system that allows designated authorities access to registered firearms. Firearms records, such as make, model, serial number, suppliers information, and data on the person who acquires or possesses a firearm, are required to be kept for a minimum of twenty years." For retail RFD's it makes sense it's the small smiths who work from home etc it will be a pain for, 20 years is a very long time in terms of data storage what with disc rot etc, 1993 CD-Roma were cutting edge and floppy discs in daily use..... How do RFD's feel about the data protection security side of these arrangements? A paper book can be locked in a safe...... What level if data security do these epos system need to meet? Afterall the police struggle to manage data security among their own staff. This isn't just a CRM system and can have serious consequences if it falls into the wrong hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 That's what I was thinking HDAV. A quick look at the Gun Register software link above suggests it is a local installation based on mySQL, with a backup service to cloud. So all the data will be sitting on a PC / server in a gun shop. Would be better if the Gun Register system was cloud based, but maybe I've misunderstood how it works after a very quick scan through the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) Interesting. Means RFDs will all have to read up on and comply with the Data Protection Act as well I guess. And get IT infrastructure in place, and think about data security, and disaster recovery, and so on. Could be a costly exercise for the less IT savvy who need to buy in a service to do it all. You have to know the DPA already as it dosen't apply to only computer records anymore. Hasn't for quite some time. I can't see that a catastrophic data loss is any more likely with a computer than with a printed book. Your shop can go up in flames easier than you can loose electronic data if you back it up off-site. J. Edited December 18, 2013 by JonathanL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 I have asked about the security aspect of terminals in the shops. Terminals can be pin or password protected. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 It's more the record of where guns are held being on a more easily stolen bit of kit than a police main frame/network..... Data protection doesn't apply to electronic records Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 I can't see that a catastrophic data loss is any more likely with a computer than with a printed book. Your shop can go up in flames easier than you can loose electronic data if you back it up off-site. J. A catastrophic data loss is *much* more likely with a computer than a book. Your entire shop needn't go up in flames for you to lose your data entirely. Of course you can make computers much more resilient by spending lots more money - that's what I'm getting at. My point is that the RFDs will likely need to invest in some kind of backup, either local or cloud, to ensure they don't lose the data. They can take a register / book home with them. And yes, I realise they can do this with a USB disk or whatever, my point is that they may need to invest heavily in either the technology, or the knowhow/training, or both, to be able to meet this mandate. This is just going to increase costs for many businesses where margins and profits are already pretty slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Why will an excell spreadsheet that backed up on something like drop box not suffice holds the same data as our registers and can be emailed on request for access?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 It probably will. But to do this, I know that my old RFD would have to- Buy a PC Buy Excel or MS Office Buy broadband Subscribe to / buy drop-box or similar service Buy in expensive IT support to set all this up for him Buy in expensive IT training to understand it all Buy in expensive ongoing IT support for when it inevitably breaks, or the law changes again, or he want to move things, or whatever I guess that some RFDs will already know how to do all this, but it's an industry that, in general, doesn't have those sort of characters in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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