spready Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I'm after abit of advice about training my 5 month old springer Dexter. He is doing really well so far with the basics, will bring a ball/ toy back every time i throw it for me , sit and a my feet and drop it. he will also come back to me with two short blow on the whistle. sit and stay for me .Stay while i walk about 20 or so yards away then come to me on my call. I'm guessing I'm covering and teaching him all the basics for a dog this age. But what I'm wanting to know is where do i go from here? I've introduced him to a small puppy dummy but he is more keen on retrieving his ball than that. Im not trying to rush anything as i heard that can ruin him. I walk him regularly past a clay ground near one of my permissions and he doesn't seen to bother with the guns. This my first working dog I've trained I'm open to all suggestions, whens a good time to include things into his playtime i want him to retrieve in the future? i.e. rabbits, pigeons sorry for all the questions, I've read a few books and watched the clips on youtube but a fair few seem to contradict each other, so i thought id ask the guys on here .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felly100 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 More experienced guys will be along shortly but I think you should be working on the dog holding the dummy and giving it to you. If your dog is in the house with you,put the dummy in its mouth and get him to hold it Can you walk all the way round your dog,while it's sat?thats where I'm at with a near six month old lab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 as you are but yes the dog should hold the retrieve till you accept it and try going back to the dog rather than re-calling it otherwise they soon anticipate recall. 5mnths is still a baby, you need a plan of stages working out based on what you want to end up with. join a club or get a good mentor preferably a pro who can guide you, though books pertaining to spaniel work are always good to read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpaulc Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Maybe begin to transition to whistle signals too if you haven't already done so, so that you can begin to get the pup to sit at a distance. I found the use of hand signals helped a lot for this bit. You could also try to get hold of some dryed pheasent / pigeon wings to cable tie to the dummy to help with scent recognition and the feel of the feathers. - with the hold, you could try to keep walking backwards as he is approaching, then only take it from his mouth while he us still walking (you have to be super quick to start with) However I ended up having to get my springer to force hold a ball (where you hold it in their mouth and repeat 'hold it' for a few seconds, take it and praise) granted this was not done in any way to stress her out. I'm sure there will be lots of other advice out there too, i found it best just to take it all In and and bring together all the techniques thst end up working for him (and you) Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Wot do u want to do with it? Sounnds lie ur doing fine so far, just keep it short and fun, 5-10 mins is plenty at that age. Even retrieving wise 1-2 a day or even a week don't need to fo a lot, just don't want to bore them. I wouldn't be worried about introducing feather yet and esp not as ur dog is not to keen on dummies yet, doesn't matter wot it retrieves ball/dummy as long as doing it well Is ur dog spitting/dropping the ball? when folk have mentioned the 'hold' command Loads of good books out there, joe irvings be amoung the best for a spaniel, i think james douglaus's 1 is a prety good basic gundog book very easy to read and understand. Also be plenty of good dvd's, i've heard davy lissets is probably 1 off the best, not seen it myself but have trained with him a few tims, openshaws, think simon tyres's too? If u can find a local gundog/training club or local shooter u know, good to get out with a few different dogs and let other experienced people help u along. make sit far easier Most spaniel boys would be working on them hunting a bit by that age, do u want it to hunt a pattern and turn on whistle (often 1 short sharp whistle) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherwayup Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 The one thing I wish I'd done with my ESS (my first dog and now three yrs old) is bring him up with chickens/pheasants/pigeons all around him. As per advice in books etc. I kept him away from game and his basic training and dummy work was very good. At about 9-10 months I took him to a 'trainer' who was showing me how it's done when he lost control of my dog on a shoot ground and it ended up with him tearing through a wood scattering pheasants. If I get another dog, I think I'd try the opposite of keeping him away from game and bore him silly with birds from a few months, even if it means keeping chickens and pigeons etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 The one thing I wish I'd done with my ESS (my first dog and now three yrs old) is bring him up with chickens/pheasants/pigeons all around him. As per advice in books etc. I kept him away from game and his basic training and dummy work was very good. At about 9-10 months I took him to a 'trainer' who was showing me how it's done when he lost control of my dog on a shoot ground and it ended up with him tearing through a wood scattering pheasants. If I get another dog, I think I'd try the opposite of keeping him away from game and bore him silly with birds from a few months, even if it means keeping chickens and pigeons etc. I trust you didn't give up at that point? Some think a few good chases are a good start for a hunting dog, you cant put in desire that's not there but you can control it when it is. Second dog not required just yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spready Posted February 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Thanks for all the feed back guys, I'm gunna be mainly looking to use him for picking up for me when I'm pigeon shooting , but wouldn't mind getting him used to hunting aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherwayup Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 .., you cant put in desire that's not there but you can control it when it is. Second dog not required just yet He's got desire in spades, that's my problem. Too hot for an amateur/beginner like me (but I love him; in a stressed out kind of way). He's a lovely dog, great pet, great when training. Just gets a bit of the old Red mist when around game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Otherway, Have u tried another trainer? Most trainers will train slighlty different ways, some suit some dogs/people better others suit others and some will just not be very good Have u given up on the dog as a working dog? With a good trainer most things can be worked around, and esp when u know the type of dog ur dealing with. If the basics where done well u'd be surprised how quick dog will revert back to them There will be some FT spaniels that can be a be hot but possibly going back to long line then progressing into a rabbit pen then onto ground with scent but no game onto little game etc, small steps. Don't know ur dog obviously but even at 3 not to late, may even have mellowed, as long as not allowed to persistantly chase for past 2 years. But u will have to keep a close eye on it at ALL times and learn to read when it is about to play up, bring it in to heel or make it sit to calm down Dunno wot breeding in it but possibly if/when u buy a 2nd dog just buy a working strain dog of someone u know or have seen, with very little recent FT red leters, may be a bit ploddier but that is no bad thing in a beating dog that is expected to work all day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherwayup Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Don't want to hi-jack the thread, but haven't given up on him as working dog at all. I take him wildfowling and he came beating a few times this year. I let him hunt when we were in thick cover (not cover crop) well well back from the flushing point, or turned around and hunted back though the bit just beat. Think I will try another trainer I know with a rabbit pen. Edited February 25, 2014 by otherwayup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I love this line But u will have to keep a close eye on it at ALL times and learn to read when it is about to play up, bring it in to heel or make it sit to calm down Good advice but the optimum point is "when its about to" meaning before. A hard thing to get just right and a dog like that can and will once it reaches "simmer" point intentionally and wilfully break on recall. At boil you might as well not bother with recall and just grab it when the opportunity arises LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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