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scotslad

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  1. I knew off 2 DIY shoots that shot mid weeks, but yes not the norm. But many folk do/can work a Saturday too. Still losing a wage I agree with u and it's up to urself, but would ur day not be slightly better if ur costs were covered. If ur a beater u still get the hard yards to do should u not get paid for it too. How often are the 'guns' busy when it's there turn to beat on keepers day??? Or even when they do turn up they just go throu the motions. Seen it with many walk 1 stand 1 shoots the rival teams are either in such a hurry to stand next drive or worse know there standing the drive next time, a lot of birds are either missed escape of fly wrong direction. My view u either pay well or u all get the chance to stand so ur all even. Otherwise ur all even but I'm more even than u.
  2. Exactly wot I was trying to say, or more ideally with a more experienced dog. But really he should off done this when he 1st got the dog, u don't just take a dog out without assessing it yourself in a controlled way. That's like a football manager just taking someone's word they can play and putting them straight in the team for a cup game, without ever seeing him kick a ball. Depends on the keeper but may well have been good to go for how he used it, dogging in and beating where guns are a long way off and plenty off scent and birds about. Not the keepers fault ur mate should off checked and put the training in before taking it shooting
  3. When was the last time truth came out from martford mill?? Cost of insurance? Consultation with ammo makers? No science no change??? And that's just the last few months Unfortunately so far on back foot still in the car park while others have started the race. To little to late but worse are the people controlling it they are the real problem, wouldn't matter how much the fund was Have done more to divide shooters in past 6 months than p ackham wj has ever done. Very sadly basc are more of the problem than the solution.
  4. It all depends on every dog and the other dog too, as mostsay better to train 1 1 but in some cases letting a dog run with other dogs can help massively. I know now I routinely use letting my young dogs run with older 1s, things like recall let all my dogs run together the split second pup catches up to them blow recall so other dogs turn and come back, pup gets used to hearing recall blow turning round and bombing back to u. Same with water get pups to chase play with older dogs send them in a shallow warn water on a nice sunny day. But again it's more just putting foundations in than actual training. And ur right they will learn bad habits faster almost instantly, but bad habits are always more fun wether dog or human😀 I'd say very far from over for dog try telling ur mate to read up on ways to intro to gun shot loads off different ways. Does it mate clap hands drop feed bowls etc when near the dog. Does his dog retrieve? Plenty of good advice how to intro a dog to gun shot but it needs to be getting a benefit from it, ie retrieve or something with a nervous dog or young dog the normal advice was always get a mate to help with a starter and dummy, so he can stand at distance and as soon as it heard a bang it's marks dummy and u send it. Must admit nowadays I just let my young dogs free run with older 1s ( usually wait till 8 or 9 months old) let dogs get 30-50m away and fire starter pistol. The old dogs automatically stop and look for the game falling and young dogs never seem to bat an eye. I still have a mate who takes it out on a shoot day and shoots walked up over it, crazy to me. But he says done it for years never had a problem, but in my opinion terrible advice he's just been very lucky. Just the old fashioned way And if ur unlucky u will probably have ruined it and very hard to fix. Training really needs to be done solo but I'm sure his dog could be conditioned while running/playing with other dogs. But u really want the other dogs to be obedient so it will learn manners/good habits from them but dogs will certainly get confidence from the other dogs not being scared of water/gunshot etc Ps As has been said having any dog free near a chainsaw is just a recipe for disaster. Falling branches, rolling trunks and moving chain. Just takes the dog to come in for attention as u turn with chain still moving. If ur mate is a farmer chances are his chain will be hanging off saw anyway still keep going after stopping and most can't work the chain brake
  5. Aye llyod u do have a point about the standard off beater but mibbee a chicken and egg situation. Not that I beat often nowadays but on better shoots paying better money u do have better beaters, u often have a waiting list to get on. By same token if u have a lot of birds u just can't afford to have terrible dogs running free, see plenty terrible dogs but usually pulling like wild horses on leads all drive.
  6. If u think back to early days of shooting and probably right throu to 60s or 70s normal working folk just couldn't afford to take a day off work and prob working a 6 day week as a normal week. I always mind my mates dad who was a rural tradesmen ( about 75 now) used to talk about when he 1st started. Christmas trades, in those days u got 2 days off and many in Scotland would chose to work Christmas to get 2 days of for new year, not the 2+ weeks that's normal now When u look at some of game returns was some big bags shot much off it wild so probably ( I'm guessing) taking in far more ground per drive than u would now so would need a lot off beaters. Another old fella I know his dad ran the hedge cutting squad on a small local estate, it employed 6 ft just cutting hedges throu winter and it was a small estate. All done with hedge knifes in those days It was amazing the massive labour forces that used to be employed on every estate/farm back in those days. Think about all the things we take for granted now with diggers, machines etc all done by hand, field drains dug, stone walls built/transported, all those fancy gardens landscaped maintained not too mention any builders etc when u see how ornate many old buildings are, some hunt kennels or stables are stunning even now all tiled and carved sandstone Labour was cheap then.
  7. I know late to the party. But seen this and thought I'd comment. Possibly a bit controversial, but just my view give a different perspective While I agree with Jim to some extent, but the reason why beaters have never been paid or only paid a nominal fee + food etc, On most estates when shooting first started up and till relevantly recently the beaters would already be paid employees of the estate, so most likely already paying them for the day and most likely giving them a house too. Chances are they would be any kennel/stable staff, gardeners, farm workers, forestry workers even house staff, it wasn't all that long ago that that was the norm on most estates with big numbers of staff which could easily beat the day all inhouse. Shooting has moved away from being owner ran and even the very few estates who still run the shoot no longer have the work force they once did, so even the staff they have can't afford to order them to go beating instead of doing day job. Far cheaper to get us part timers in who are daft enough to work for peanuts, well really pies/bar meals I think beaters/pickers up etc wages need to rise dramatically across the board, even on family/farm shoots. By beating for peanuts ur only subsidising someone else's shooting, why should I lose money so a stranger I don't know can pay less?? No matter how fun it is Even on a farm DIY shoot why should anyone expect anyone else to lose possibly a hundred pound a day by coming to a shoot to save them a few hundred quid over the year. I bet any SE lads beating on a mid week small family/syndicate shoot will be losing more in wages than it costs the guns to shoot there That's all it would take to pay beaters money, not a lot really I know I would never expect someone to give up there time for me for nowt so i can save a few quid for wot is a luxury day out. I don't think my time is any more valuable than anyone elses no matter how much were both enjoying our days out wether shooting or with dogs And a few days working instead of beating for free would soon pay for ur own day out. Don't get me wrong I still book days off to work my dogs but far more picky where I go than used to be. So still not financially viable but getting near it now locally No shoots in this area pay less than 40 many a lot more, most grouse moors are up to 3 figures now for picking, but u need it if running a mob of dogs + 4x4, I travel 2hrs to 1 but owner is very nice but a bloody long day I do have mates in other parts of country I go to grouse with can make a decent enough wage most years now from aug to Feb just working dogs full time I use to have this view more just for commercial shoots making money, no other business could price a job needing 10 labourers at 30 quid a day But as I've got older must be getting tighter/more miserable as think even on farm or syndicate days ur still subsidising someone else's sport just the same. That's why when I ran a DIY syndicate I tried to avoid beaters as most 1 for 1s do but any extra beaters I needed for a day if short just came as a guest and stood drives as well only fair way to do it if not paying proper money/ other incentives
  8. Aye being the champs they were shooting close to 100 bird days as so many dogs to go throu and the morning beat they just turned round to do other half of the wood in the afternoon so it must have ran up. Must admit there wasn't much got away from the guns those days a very good team which they needed to be to get throu so many good dogs and all needing retrieves.
  9. It really depends who's training them. I do think some of the newer FT trainers do try to robotise there dogs to some degree as they don't know any better or have access to enough shooting as not really shooting folk. I mind I was at the Springer? champs a few years ago now and a dog got a CoM for not picking a bird, injured bird from the previous beat dog must off nudged 3 or 4 times, now I realise it was unshot at that moment but surely u want a dog to peg any injured birds Not meaning to have a go at FT as far to big a thing to generalise so many trainers train different ways
  10. U should trying pushing a chainsaw all day in full PPE, finishing a job off so in direct sun all day. Sometimes not so bad in the shade of trees. Think drank 4 litres of water in Fri and never peed once all day. Best thing is sticking ur juice/water bottles in freezer over night, usually do 1 half full and another almost full and top up in morning. Nothing worse than freezing both full when u need a drink early in morning and no thawed water Only thing is gets ur piece bag wet with all the condensation on outside of bottles.
  11. Lead can be and IS ingested by wildfowl. That is pretty much fact not a lot of point in even denying that. How often in UK context it's an issue I don't know. I done my dissertation n it 20+ yes ago, even then plenty of studies showing they can ingest it and it becomes stuck in the buzzard as won't erode the way normal grit or seeds would. From memory I'm sure some big studies in OZ with magpie geese? ( Memory a bit fuzzy with being pickled at uni) and they were found to be almost actively selecting shot as the shot/pellet was the same size as there staple diet. I would be amazed if a wader was ever found with lead ingested and the same for any other game bird. This complete surrender by basc with absolutely no evidence or scientific reason for it s a complete disgrace and handled even worse. I was a strong supporter of basc for a very long time ( 30 odd years) but last 5 or 10 years gave them benefit of doubt over a number of very dubious decisions. But I'll never ever be a member again completely lost the plot and couldnae organise a party in a brewery
  12. scotslad

    cash payment

    Must admit I had misplaced my wallet for the last week, was fairly sure it wasn't far away, as I never really go anywhere anyway ( just found it so all good) But I know I really should of cancelled it Meant to get to bank yest ( until I noticed all shut on sats now!!! ) But was worried about the contactless payment, infact going to phone up for some new cards but request contactless taken off. Is there really any need for it? Is it so hard to press a button 4 times??? Atleast if I ever lose it ( which isn't often) I don't have to worry about someone using it, chances of the guessing my pins is very small. The local bacon butty van just opened last week and she gets u to put ur money in a tub of disenfectant n the counter, with the new waterproof notes not a bad way to get round things. But I've been shopping occasionally this week all with cash, nae bother. Great living in the sticks where most folk have some common sense
  13. That's a bit harsh. Some guns can be ....... to thou
  14. It's a funny thing picking up or working dogs in general, really it's not that difficult as long as u have a bit off common sense as well as some Game sense. Many guns and handlers have very little game sense, knowing/or guessing where game will be and how it will behave. Even little things like slamming a pack up door on a frosty Jan morn. Possibly a lack of walked up shooting I know many local estates rarely bother with the many local FT trainers, mainly for 2 reasons 1 there often there to train there dogs and 2 if they get a last minute run in a trial they often cancel to go to the trial, leaving them short of a picker at short notice. Althou I do think the problem is more often with relative new comers to the FT scene. I know the few FT trainers that are in demand usually come out with a team of pot lickers, mix of all sorts of breeds and rarely a comp dog. I've often seen spaniel trainers refuse to let there dogs enter thick unseen cover incase they get up to mischief unseen, which I do understand just not great for the keeper. Also been on a few spaniel training days where u'd have more luck herding cats than getting them into gamey ground, Mind once when shooting at a FT and just coming to some rabbit net fence where u could see spaniel was on scent, so chances are birds running on till hit fence, bloody handler walked right in front of me and wonders why I never shot??? I know locally there is a bit off a shortage of decent pickers up, or even pickers up. Must admit I don't really like working my dogs throu a drive if I can help it r be far enough back ur well away from guns if a winged 1 comes down. It is a good point about guns with dogs, at end off the day there paying for the day, dead birds around there feet will still be there long after the gun and dog have left. I mind years ago a gun came over and thanked me for not picking some birds, was a grouse drive that they knock over a deep gully so more like an upland partridge drive than a traditional grouse drive. Really the only safe place to stand which doesn't spook the birds is with the guns themselves. The gun below me had his boy with him and shot a couple of absolute screamers which landed not far behind me up the face, he said it just topped the day off with his dog retrieving them. I just stood and watched with dogs at heel Quite often if we do that drive I never let me dogs go as guns often have dogs and never that productive
  15. They're all the same family, mustelids. Like anything u get big and small 1s, mink can be all sorts of colours but I've never seen 1 marked like that before. But u do get 'polecat' ferrets that are marked exactly like that. That big hob I had was exceptionally big and would be as big as many small/med mink. Bloody thing was the size of some rabbits. I imagine the only 100% certain way would be a genetic test
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