Advantages and Disadvantages of supersonic vs subsonic 22lr

[colin lad]

kent have you tried the cci velocitors as a hv round or cci quiets (low power round)??

i found like you the other hv rounds were terrible grouping wise in my cz as were the low power cb longs and others but whether cci have got their act together i have found the velocitors very accurate out to 100 yards and also the quiet's both of which are new in the last year or so

if not may be worth a try being a 40grain bullet and still having 100+ ft lb at 100 yards ideal to carry a few in pocket if fox shows up also the quiets for around barns and stables

 

colin

[kent]

I don't recall the OP asking for a debate Kent, I do recall him asking for opinions in a round about way. I did not participate in order to have my opinion or in my case experience and observations to be trampled on. You being sceptical of my findings is not sticking to facts Kent, it is assuming, assuming you know better!

 

U.

Sorry if you feel hard done to. the title of the thread is "advantages and disadvantages of supersonic v subsonic .22 lr" might I point out I am not preventing you putting your point so type away, though that's pretty much a discussion debate type of thread title to me. You found a 40 grain Sub in the RWS it might be interesting if you could tell us all if its the same bullet as the RWS sub as I suspect it will be. How fast it goes? and will this increase its ability to buck wind as you claim over say an SK sub and the same RWS in a subsonic (the RWS as many are aware is very slow for a sub with 2" extra drop at 100 yards over the std sub produced) a very accurate round non the less. It might answer the whole speed and wind thing, though I feel entering the transonic zone might loose any advantage if there is one (the speed will give us an indication of were this might be depending on pressure). I know the RWS was rated in a HV .22 test by Bruce Pots in Shooting times about a year or so back, though having little faith in HV myself I fail to remember his findings. A std .22 LR bullet of 40 grains simply cannot be pushed hard enough to be truly useful at the pressure limits set for the LR and the soft lead waxed bullet that has performance advantages in all but Kinetic energy over a .22 magnum rimfire. I put forwards if it were any different we might all be using the magnum. What gives the HV stuff any advantage over a sub is surely a rise in kinetic energy, if you can make use of it and if you have a bigger target who cares if it only goes say 3" at 100?

I don't see a need to get shirty because I questioned the accuracy of your statement, it could be seen the other way round as I made a post saying worse on wind and you thought different, it don't bother me none if you don't agree but it wont stop me questioning the viability of a claim I could be wrong I could be right, if its the former put forwards the case

[Fisheruk]

IMO most people seriously hunting with the 22lr will be using subs. I wonder how many thousands of rounds of HV are languishing in ammo safes up and down the country as folk buy them to try and then give up after firing off 20 or so rounds and realising that subs rule supreme. It's accuracy that kills.

[Underdog]

IMO most people seriously hunting with the 22lr will be using subs. I wonder how many thousands of rounds of HV are languishing in ammo safes up and down the country as folk buy them to try and then give up after firing off 20 or so rounds and realising that subs rule supreme. It's accuracy that kills.

Fair point!

 

 

Sorry if you feel hard done to. the title of the thread is "advantages and disadvantages of supersonic v subsonic .22 lr" might I point out I am not preventing you putting your point so type away, though that's pretty much a discussion debate type of thread title to me. You found a 40 grain Sub in the RWS it might be interesting if you could tell us all if its the same bullet as the RWS sub as I suspect it will be. How fast it goes? and will this increase its ability to buck wind as you claim over say an SK sub and the same RWS in a subsonic (the RWS as many are aware is very slow for a sub with 2" extra drop at 100 yards over the std sub produced) a very accurate round non the less. It might answer the whole speed and wind thing, though I feel entering the transonic zone might loose any advantage if there is one (the speed will give us an indication of were this might be depending on pressure). I know the RWS was rated in a HV .22 test by Bruce Pots in Shooting times about a year or so back, though having little faith in HV myself I fail to remember his findings. A std .22 LR bullet of 40 grains simply cannot be pushed hard enough to be truly useful at the pressure limits set for the LR and the soft lead waxed bullet that has performance advantages in all but Kinetic energy over a .22 magnum rimfire. I put forwards if it were any different we might all be using the magnum. What gives the HV stuff any advantage over a sub is surely a rise in kinetic energy, if you can make use of it and if you have a bigger target who cares if it only goes say 3" at 100?

I don't see a need to get shirty because I questioned the accuracy of your statement, it could be seen the other way round as I made a post saying worse on wind and you thought different, it don't bother me none if you don't agree but it wont stop me questioning the viability of a claim I could be wrong I could be right, if its the former put forwards the case

Yes I felt hard done to so thanks for the apology Kent.

All the `fizz` has gone out of me now on this one, I will leave it to you to split hairs friend

 

U.

[kent]

kent have you tried the cci velocitors as a hv round or cci quiets (low power round)??

i found like you the other hv rounds were terrible grouping wise in my cz as were the low power cb longs and others but whether cci have got their act together i have found the velocitors very accurate out to 100 yards and also the quiet's both of which are new in the last year or so

if not may be worth a try being a 40grain bullet and still having 100+ ft lb at 100 yards ideal to carry a few in pocket if fox shows up also the quiets for around barns and stables

 

colin

Yes and I have 5 left, they look substantially less than 40 grains though it don't say on the box, I might pull one tomorrow if there is doubt. It just says 30% more energy on the box. I tested them in wind at 50 and 100 and I should still have the targets perhaps? Off memory I think they were double the windage of sk subs in alternate groups. The bullet might be a speer gold dot HP if that makes any sense to anyone? It says this on the box. They are however older than 1yr (though they came direct from their land of origin)

 

I remember your posts on the CCI quiets, I tried to get some locally but my dealer wanted me to get a brick or find others to take the rest as low power .22 gather dust in the shop. On balance they aint low enough to be worthwhile for me under a std sub or over a std airgun and the importers said "they are ok in a land without moderators" and "I think they sell well in Germany for this reason"

 

I don't do fox and rimfire myself, I think it is very much a niche for others in different circumstances. It isn't very often you get a static fox at say 50 yards or less up here, I doubt it might live very long if a fox made a habit of doing this(they have no friends here as its pretty much all keepered ground at the highest professional level). If I did and it was close enough the placement of a subsonic should make no matter to how quick it died as I should plop is straight into mission control or pass it up. 100 yards on a fox with a .22 lr is not something I should consider, personally feel too much to go wrong

 

 

BTW I tested a load of .22 last year with a mate here, we fired allsorts and both stuck with what we use normally. Myself SK subs I have been on these from when I could no longer get them in the Lapua box ( I think all production of Lapua moved to Germany and is SK now ?)

Edited April 15, 2014 by kent

[kent]

I got sent 3000 rounds of subs, round nose and hv a few months ago (1000 of each) and guess what, 975 hv left and non of the other two.

Did you fire the 25 HV "just for the crack like?" LOL

[colin lad]

Yes and I have 5 left, they look substantially less than 40 grains though it don't say on the box, I might pull one tomorrow if there is doubt. It just says 30% more energy on the box. I tested them in wind at 50 and 100 and I should still have the targets perhaps? Off memory I think they were double the windage of sk subs in alternate groups. The bullet might be a speer gold dot HP if that makes any sense to anyone? It says this on the box. They are however older than 1yr (though they came direct from their land of origin)

 

I remember your posts on the CCI quiets, I tried to get some locally but my dealer wanted me to get a brick or find others to take the rest as low power .22 gather dust in the shop. On balance they aint low enough to be worthwhile for me under a std sub or over a std airgun and the importers said "they are ok in a land without moderators" and "I think they sell well in Germany for this reason"

 

I don't do fox and rimfire myself, I think it is very much a niche for others in different circumstances. It isn't very often you get a static fox at say 50 yards or less up here, I doubt it might live very long if a fox made a habit of doing this(they have no friends here as its pretty much all keepered ground at the highest professional level). If I did and it was close enough the placement of a subsonic should make no matter to how quick it died as I should plop is straight into mission control or pass it up. 100 yards on a fox with a .22 lr is not something I should consider, personally feel too much to go wrong

 

 

BTW I tested a load of .22 last year with a mate here, we fired allsorts and both stuck with what we use normally. Myself SK subs I have been on these from when I could no longer get them in the Lapua box ( I think all production of Lapua moved to Germany and is SK now ?)

like you i tried 5/6 different brands of hv round and still have 5/6 half empty box's in my safe all were bad grouping wise in fact i gave them to a mate that tried them and gave them back minus a few from each box,

i almost gave up with the hv idea then when i got the quiets i also got some velocitors which group great,

when i am going to sit somewhere near 3 or 4 warrens a different distances i take all 3 type's to use,

i know that the standard sub's would do everything from 30 - 100 yards but i like playing with the different rounds and they all do a good job,

when it's just a walk around or lamping then it's the winnie sub's usually,

what i did try saturday evening with mungolee that i found interesting,

we both zeroed our guns myself with said 40grain hv rounds and lee with his hmr and 17g vmax we set up a target in the middle of a field so we had a good side wind from left to right sat 2 targets next to each other and fired 5 rounds each both shooting at the same time so as the bullets would be travelling through the same side wind to compare wind drift on the 2 rounds,

sadly we didn't keep the targets but at 50 and 100m yards with about 10mph winds the .22 hv drifted nearly twice the distance the hmr did which really suprised me,

not a text book way of comparing but an in field trial,

though the .22 grouped tighter than lee's hmr but i think that's just hmr grouping for you

 

colin