fieldwanderer Posted July 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Oh!? thought I'd figured it out Soo, just to check; with the firing pin already cocked, and the bolt closed on an empty chamber but in all other ways "ready to fire", your bolt lifts perfectly smooth all the way to up as far as it'll turn (where it needs to be before it can be pulled back)? I know that's not something you'd normally do but it's the safest way I can find that shows this happening clearly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Right, take your gun ensure its unloaded. put it across you knees looking down at the bolt release and the very rear of the action. As you raise the bolt you see the bolt cock against the rear of the action body on a flat section following the round, is this the click? If not what you are experiencing is not normal. The whole action is perfectly smooth but is effectively in two stages with nothing I could describe as a click. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted July 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Right, take your gun ensure its unloaded. put it across you knees looking down at the bolt release and the very rear of the action. As you raise the bolt you see the bolt cock against the rear of the action body on a flat section following the round, is this the click? yes that's about it mate, in Dougy's video the last time he lifts the bolt he pauses and takes a little more effort to lift it that last little bit - that's all I'm on about. With the ppu brass, irrespective of what load was in it, that takes a LOT more effort - but, since I stopped using it, shooting the sako's been much more pleasant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 yes that's about it mate, in Dougy's video the last time he lifts the bolt he pauses and takes a little more effort to lift it that last little bit - that's all I'm on about. With the ppu brass, irrespective of what load was in it, that takes a LOT more effort - but, since I stopped using it, shooting the sako's been much more pleasant. Sounds like over expansion of the brass most probably pressure related, never ignore bolt pressure as an indicator! Sorry I didn't as I don't open links anymore. Diagnosing issues or non issues as the case might be is so hard from user description its near enough impossible. What your looking for is no real increase in effort from a dummy round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Bloomin nora.....that is why I said oil a case that the action is clicking on and see if the click stops or continues. Then fools come on and said " oooooh don't shoot it with oil in the chamber blah blah blah". Look well if it is only a grippy chamber! I could be way off but please just eliminate it from the enquiry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Bloomin nora.....that is why I said oil a case that the action is clicking on and see if the click stops or continues. Then fools come on and said " oooooh don't shoot it with oil in the chamber blah blah blah". Look well if it is only a grippy chamber! I could be way off but please just eliminate it from the enquiry! There is only one fool as you put it and its the one who shoots with an oily chamber or ammo. It removes clearance and increases pressure (liquids like oil don't compress very well and you might very well ruin a good chamber ). You can have your viewpoint but be careful with who you term a fool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 No Kent. You are assuming like a fool that I have advocated a rifle to be shot with an oiled chamber. I have not implied or instructed any one to shoot anything with an oiled chamber. You though a member of the crow council act like a crow and can not wait to pounce and peck away. Muppet of the highest rank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 No Kent. You are assuming like a fool that I have advocated a rifle to be shot with an oiled chamber. I have not implied or instructed any one to shoot anything with an oiled chamber. You though a member of the crow council act like a crow and can not wait to pounce and peck away. Muppet of the highest rank! I find your post rude offensive and against the written forum rules but most of contradictive of your previous one of the same manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted July 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 the ppu cases do this even with a minimum load, the remington cases don't do it at all even at max or near max and none of them; ppu or remington with any load (light or hot) have any other pressure signs. It's a tight chamber and ppu seems to be known for similar problems. So, I concluded it's the ppu brass that's causing the main problem (I don't particularly care WHY because I've stopped using it) but wanted to know if the "click" with the chamber empty was normal or if I had an issue anyway - from what kent and dougy came up with, it would seem it's normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I think I should respond by saying I initially told the OP not to shoot with oil in his chamber, not all people know full well not to do that, the matter was over when the OP responded initially. If I told someone to put oil in a barrel or chamber I should make sure I told them to not fire the rifle like that regardless of intended purpose. The issue was on bolt raising and that is after all what we do after firing, Then the insults start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Pack the name calling in please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 the ppu cases do this even with a minimum load, the remington cases don't do it at all even at max or near max and none of them; ppu or remington with any load (light or hot) have any other pressure signs. It's a tight chamber and ppu seems to be known for similar problems. So, I concluded it's the ppu brass that's causing the main problem (I don't particularly care WHY because I've stopped using it) but wanted to know if the "click" with the chamber empty was normal or if I had an issue anyway - from what kent and dougy came up with, it would seem it's normal. Have you looked and noticed it at the flat section on the back of the action? I must admit I was baffled by your description and had to look see if it could be called a "click" and I couldn't call it that personally. If you can I should strip the bolt and look for issues (don't do this without the tool its a swine to re-assemble without it, I have in the dark under torch light and it involved many bad words) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 If you can I should strip the bolt and look for issues (don't do this without the tool its a swine to re-assemble without it, I have in the dark under torch light and it involved many bad words) If the rifle was bought from new it should have come with a round plastic disk that is placed over the rear of the bold to re assemble which makes the job allot easier. you can knock one up if you have a bit of common quite easily. Ive just re-read you original post fieldwanderer, you say you are getting 3600-3750 with 65 grain, now i'm getting that with 55 grain noslers, it was 3850 but dropped due to pressure signs, heavy bolt lift and flat primers (CCI br,FED 215 both flat) now i,m having a wonder here could it be a little on the hot side in time even after F/L the case's will get thicker around the base above the rim, this wont be easy to resize due to that being the thickest part of the case. Do you think that could be a possible cause or am i barking up the wrong tree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted July 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I did notice your bolt is quite different to mine dougy - mines more like the one on the 85 Anyway, I did think this was a pressure issue but bought new ppu brass and started with a charge just over minimum but still had the problem, changed powder and again tried a more mild load (albeit midway) and same again. BUT, I can run right up to max with the remington brass, but get a slightly lower velocity (~3600fps). Some but not all of the primers look flatter but not overly so and the bolt operated just like yours in your video. Tiz a 28" barrell with a fairly slow powder mind. Kent, yes - that's what I was calling primary extraction as I'm sure I've heard that particular "ramp" called that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 If the rifle was bought from new it should have come with a round plastic disk that is placed over the rear of the bold to re assemble which makes the job allot easier. you can knock one up if you have a bit of common quite easily. Ive just re-read you original post fieldwanderer, you say you are getting 3600-3750 with 65 grain, now i'm getting that with 55 grain noslers, it was 3850 but dropped due to pressure signs, heavy bolt lift and flat primers (CCI br,FED 215 both flat) now i,m having a wonder here could it be a little on the hot side in time even after F/L the case's will get thicker around the base above the rim, this wont be easy to resize due to that being the thickest part of the case. Do you think that could be a possible cause or am i barking up the wrong tree I have one but I didnt carry it this occurred before a dawn stalk when I recocked the bolt after removing it from the holder I went a step to far (easy done at silly o'clock in the morn in the dark) Your right the speed does sound fast if its still with a 20". One reason I fire the first single shot at each step over a crono myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 I did notice your bolt is quite different to mine dougy - mines more like the one on the 85 Anyway, I did think this was a pressure issue but bought new ppu brass and started with a charge just over minimum but still had the problem, changed powder and again tried a more mild load (albeit midway) and same again. BUT, I can run right up to max with the remington brass, but get a slightly lower velocity (~3600fps). Some but not all of the primers look flatter but not overly so and the bolt operated just like yours in your video. Tiz a 28" barrell with a fairly slow powder mind. Kent, yes - that's what I was calling primary extraction as I'm sure I've heard that particular "ramp" called that. Little can be said about brass that isn't new unfired, primers are very hard to read at times the sako will however drive the brass back into the bolt face and create a square were the extractor slot is. Bolt pressure on the lift is Primary to all other things, if you get it your too hot even if all else looks good it should remain constant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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