chilt Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 I'm looking to buy any amount of fresh or frozen wood pigeons or WHY must be steel shot to feed my breeding falcons.Please ring 07941 276046 or emal darren@falcons4u.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deako Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Darren, Just out of interest, why do most falconers insist on steel shot? I regularly supply one of the UK's biggest raptor breeders with lead shot birds. I won't say who it is, suffice to say he is based in the North West, and has well in excess of 100 breeding falcons, hawks and eagles of all species, and exports them all over the world. The guy in question seems to have no problem at all with lead shot birds and tells me he has never had a single case of one of his birds suffering ill effects. Not having a pop at you, but interested to know why the difference of opinion? PS...got none left now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Deako I had an interesting incident with a zoo nearly loosing an eagle due to a lead pellet out of a rabbit, needless to say they never asked for any more bunnies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deako Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Leon, I can well understand that, and don't doubt it...but I just wonder why one person can feed hundreds of lead shot pigeons to his birds each month with no apparent problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Don't know? short of picking the pellets out i cant see how they manage it. Maybe there is a job for some illegal imigrants doing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 A hand held metal detector (the sort of thing you get from B and Q) will find pellets in shot birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilt Posted January 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Hi Deako It's luck of the draw mate.In theory the Falcons should cast it back up in the pellet with feathers etc.If this does not happen and goes in the stomach then the acids try to break it down and your in for problems.A few years ago a mate gave me some air rifled pigeons,he promised me all pellets would of gone through with his high powered gas gun.I minced the pigeons fed it to a clutch of 5 falcons result 5 dead falcons.Very expensive lesson.A friends Peregrine caught a Crow he fed the bird on the Crow and that died too must of been peppered. So why take the risk at all?? Because wild food is better than the mass produced Quail etc you can buy. Was the falconers initials GB?? Thanks Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilt Posted January 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 A hand held metal detector (the sort of thing you get from B and Q) will find pellets in shot birds. hammergun I used to use a hand held detector but the one I used had a range of about 1/2 inch on shot.It was very time consuming.Any idea on any better models??had a mate come round wit the dos nadgers detector which would not detect lead shot!! He was well peed off. Thanks Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 The one I used to have would find pellets in shot pheasants and rabbits. I think I got it from RS components. You could adjust the sensitivity right up if you needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 childt how about you only buy head shot rabbits and then feed them to the birds, that should be ok, headshot with airifles and if you remove their heads I guess to be safe. I would imagine you'd have great difficulty getting woodies which have been shot with steel shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilt Posted January 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 The one I used to have would find pellets in shot pheasants and rabbits. I think I got it from RS components. You could adjust the sensitivity right up if you needed. Cheers Any ideas on make etc.Some thing with better range would be great.I used to pluck the cut in 4 and check every bit of meat.very often there was no shot to be found but you still had to do it.If I had something with more range I could check the whole carcass. Thanks Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilt Posted January 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 childt how about you only buy head shot rabbits and then feed them to the birds, that should be ok, headshot with airifles and if you remove their heads I guess to be safe. I would imagine you'd have great difficulty getting woodies which have been shot with steel shot. Teal The Falcons I breed(mainly Peregrines) are bird eaters and dont do too well on rabbits.Ok to feed now and again but during the breeding and rearing the young they need the best food going. Cheers Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deako Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Chilt, The guys name is Derek, not a million miles from Warrington. I don't blame you for not taking a risk on the lead though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilt Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Chilt, The guys name is Derek, not a million miles from Warrington. I don't blame you for not taking a risk on the lead though! Yep DS Cheers Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deako Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Thats the Fella! ...jeeze, that guy is SERIOUSLY into his birds, some awesome predators there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilt Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 jeeze, that guy is SERIOUSLY into his birds, some awesome predators there! Yes mate they get you like that,it's like a drug.Even worse when your flying and hunting them.16 days left and thats it till Sept Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rarms Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Chilt, I would have thought you would get the probs from any bird as they may have all been pricked in the past and like you say I wouldnt want to take a chance with my animals. On another note, I understood that birds were affected by the lead because it stayed in their gizzard and was slowly bashed down by the grit and gravel in it. This may not be the case with birds of prey, not sure if they have a gizzard. I would stick to commercial meat. Or maybe get an air rifle and shoot smaller things like starlings, which whilst legal is also very unlikely to have been pricked in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiercel Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 It is my understanding that,when the lead passes through the meat it leaves a lead trace and that trace is toxic enough to to kill a bird of prey. So the bird dosnt have to ingest a pellet to kill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilt Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Chilt, I would have thought you would get the probs from any bird as they may have all been pricked in the past and like you say I wouldnt want to take a chance with my animals.. I would stick to commercial meat. Or maybe get an air rifle and shoot smaller things like starlings, which whilst legal is also very unlikely to have been pricked in the past. Rarms Yes using any wild food is a risk.But by using stuff like woodies you are giving the Falcons the best.Which means better breeding succes.Also giving the Falcons wild food you are giving them all the diseases they are carrying which gives them better immunity which also gets passed to the young.All this commercial food have been treated for all the common diseases so when your Falcons come across these things they have no immunity and could die. Thanks Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilt Posted January 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 It is my understanding that,when the lead passes through the meat it leaves a lead trace and that trace is toxic enough to to kill a bird of prey. So the bird dosnt have to ingest a pellet to kill it. Tiercel This is not my experience as I've fed loads of lead shot stuff and detected and removed the shot but is too time consuming. Thanks Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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