al4x Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Insurance companies have loads of records of claims and do loads of claims analysis, consequently they know full well the types of claim they are likely to see from non working dogs. Claims that fall out of that spectrum may well be investigated, the types of injury suffered by working dogs are very rarely seen in pet dogs, they would also question the vet during an investigation to ask them how the injury was likely to be caused. Personally I would not risk under insuring a dog or anything else, it simply is not worth the risk Valid point about the annual vaccination / MOT, something I will look into David David rarely do you talk as much rubbish as this post. Pretty much every accident you could have while shooting you could have on a normal walk. I know my two have walks that include going into cover, under fences etc and very similar to taking them beating. Other than the dog being shot, whether a dog that accompanies you shooting is a working dog is possibly debatable. That said there is cover with the likes of pet plan that's not much more anyway. I did see the BASC cover and I will get a quote on mine when theirs is up but I might need to be sitting down when the price comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Well, al4x I must bow to your grater experience and knowledge. Forgive me, but I (apparently wrongly) assumed that with over 20 years experience in insurance, and having reviewed literally hundreds of insurance claims involving dogs, and reviewed claims records of working and non working dogs held by a variety of underwriters, and with a working knowledge of how insurance companies investigate certain types of claim, I would have a better understanding of the industry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
did i miss Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 So what sort of cost are we talking for working lab dog of say 12 to 18 months old doing about 8 days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I can give you a quote, it will very much depend on the level and types of cover you want. You can get a quote online here: http://www.bascdoginsurance.org.uk/ Or call the 0800 number listed on the site I hope that helps David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) Well, al4x I must bow to your grater experience and knowledge. Forgive me, but I (apparently wrongly) assumed that with over 20 years experience in insurance, and having reviewed literally hundreds of insurance claims involving dogs, and reviewed claims records of working and non working dogs held by a variety of underwriters, and with a working knowledge of how insurance companies investigate certain types of claim, I would have a better understanding of the industry... Come on try again, what injuries can you get on a shooting field that can't happen on a normal daily walk?Yes if you are a game keeper then I can see you might get investigated but if you have a non shooting related job I do struggle to see where an investigation might be investigated. Having just done a quick quote well it's well out of the ball park compared to pet plan on mine an extra £200 a year so will be giving it a swerve Edited March 2, 2015 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 OK, on a normal daily dog walk its highly unlikely (not impossible) a dog will suffer from: Broken leg Ruptured cruciate ligament Severe lacerations to the flank or under body This is exactly why so many dog insurers will not cover gundogs (working or training) , and its listed as a specific exclusion, injury claims are far more expensive than the typical illness claims seen in pet dogs. You may also not be aware that insurance companies are getting very hot on fraudulent claims, the amount of data sharing is significant in this context At the end of the day its not me that someone who under insures or miss insures will be debating with.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazbev Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I'm not buying it, all of those injuries could happen if you have an active dog. If it went to court how would the insurance company persuade the court on balance that you weren't on a walk and got caught in barbed wire or broke its leg in a rabbit hole, my sisters dog damaged its ligaments chasing squirrels at the local park. Do insurance companies refuse to pay out on all the above injuries by default? I have to point out that at no time have I misled an insurance company, I have answered honestly to all the questions before taking the policy out so if an insurance didn't cough up I would take it to the enth degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) Yes they could, as I clearly stated in my last post. It all depends on the circumstance of the claim in relation to the type and the level of cover you have. As I say, its not me you have to argue with. Working dog polices have a different extent of cover than pet policies as I have explained for the reasons I explained The fact is that is someone has a pet policy and they are using it to cover a working dog, and there is a claim, and its found that the dog was working or training at the time the claim arose, not only would the cover be most likely invalidated, the probability is that person will also go onto the insurance industry's fraud database and information passed onto fraud prevention agencies and or law enforcement agencies...That's my point. Check you have the correct cover for your dog David Edited March 2, 2015 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazbev Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Well I find myself broadly agreeing with you now, Im still not sure what working dog injuries are rarely found in non working dogs. I would be interested in hiw the insurance companies define working, is it when you get paid I wonder, a soaniel will hunt whether out on a walk or in a beating line, I don't see where the line is drawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Apologies or any confusion chaps, Yes a good point about defining working, different firms will have different views. Some may restrict it to only if you're paid, but others may view it as anything to do with working training dogs for the field...and even walking a working gundog could be seen as training! Hence the caveat of check with your insurer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
did i miss Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 So can some one tell me why the more the dog cost to buy the more it is to insure, the way i look at it a £1000 dog with a broken leg is the same as a £50 dog with a broken leg its still broken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 They will look at in in terms of the potential cost for a total loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 OK, on a normal daily dog walk its highly unlikely (not impossible) a dog will suffer from: Broken leg Ruptured cruciate ligament Severe lacerations to the flank or under body This is exactly why so many dog insurers will not cover gundogs (working or training) , and its listed as a specific exclusion, injury claims are far more expensive than the typical illness claims seen in pet dogs. You may also not be aware that insurance companies are getting very hot on fraudulent claims, the amount of data sharing is significant in this context At the end of the day its not me that someone who under insures or miss insures will be debating with.... I think you need to talk to more vets, cruciate injuries are far from rare in certain breeds of pet dogs. The same with broken legs far more likely to be the result of car accidents. Going back over 20 years of beating and shooting I can only think of two severe injuries dogs sustained. One was bee stings from a hive and the other was run over. Maybe just lucky, I can see if you pick up 5 days a week then there is just cause but not one accompanying you once a week. Though it's irrelevant as the cover is available easily if you shop about. Though if you have 2 or 3 dogs then self insurance makes sense especially at BASC rates it all depends what level of treatment you will give a dog. Most people that work them won't spend thousands and thousands on treatment to end up with a retired dog. I'd far prefer your posts didn't try scaremongering with look what your dog can do out working when we all know it can happen at any time. Cars are a far bigger hazard than working and one might suggest being well trained and under control and fit might make a dog less likely to be subject to a claim. Though mine are insured I'm well aware that when they are elderly and likely to need treatment that the premiums will ramp up and up to the point they are unaffordable and I pay for treatment anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Which of my posts have been scaremongering please? I don't need to talk to vets, the insurance industry data that I have reviewed comes from hundreds of vets all around the UK. Yes there are plenty of policies out there, but as I have said its important to check that the policy covers what you need for your dog, and in the circumstances that your dog enjoys. Very few of the injury claims we see come from car accidents. Also, many policies are a 'one size fits all' approach, which is perfectly fine for many, the BASC policy is more tailored and allows more flexibility for you to pick the covers you need and not pay for covers you don't. Yes self insurance is an option, and indeed one that the vast majority of dog owners choose, its up to the owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxon T Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 David, I must say you are very good at staying professional and not showing your irritation when you have to repeat yourself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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