kenj Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 About two years ago I suffered misfires and a bullet jammed just up the barrel using Remingtons in my CZ452 HMR. The cartridge case was badly split, with most of the powder unburned. Checking my pocket at the time for used cases, several had various sized splits. Also an unfired bullet had a long crack from the bullet past the neck. I stopped using them and went back to Hornady V-MAX and had no trouble. Before Christmas I was out shooting rabbits, when the fourth shot went click-pop and smoke came out of the breech. I took out the bolt and saw the barrel was blocked and had to pack up I was able to knock the boat tail through from the breech using a 5/32 inch brass rod at home. Unlike the Remingtons that had longitudinal cracks in the cases, the one removed and three more cases out of twenty in my pocket had a small crack/hole right in the corner of the neck. The ones that had fired OK had a burn mark at the hole, where gases had escaped. I had noticed a few flat sounding shots, when out before. The Hornady rounds appear to have a slightly bigger radius at the start of the neck down compared to the Remingtons. I've just checked the remaining 13 rounds from the box of 50. One has a long crack as per the Remingtons, three others have heavy crimp marks at the neck, one looking like a short crack. The next 50 I checked all seem OK. That fourth cartridge could have been in the magazine for months, as I tend to shoot two, or three rounds, then switch to a full mag. Topping up as I go along, so it's possible damp could have got in. My ammo is stored in the gun box, which is mounted in my modern house. It's a pity that this problem hasn't been fully sorted. Sitting down with a magnifying glass going through every bullet is not ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 This happens to often but is the reason I never would have one over the 22mag. One day one is going to cause an obstruction for the next round and may send debris back to the operator! It also could be why they shoot so slow too! When they came out with it I was disappointed ! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 HMR problems will never be sorted until we can come up with new technology. HMR ammo has an inherent design/manufacturing issue. That's it, unfortunately Ken we are likely to be able to write posts like yours forever, and for all makes of ammo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 well you don't hear of the same issue with other bottlenecked rimfire design, certainly not at the level of the HMR now that might be a volume issue.....but I suspect it is more to do with a corner cutting issue .17Mach2 .17WSM .5mm Rem even wildcat hornet cases .22 K Hornet 17 Hornet (albeit I realise they are higher pressure from the outset, they also have to deal with the stresses of handloaders pushing the boundaries) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I suspect, assume, it is the material used! Cost cutting but it does not work as well! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 i make the assumption that ALL HMR brass starts life as WMR brass and is then necked rumours that it is necked after charging due to the issues of getting powder into a .17 neck.....I am afraid I dont believe this was the argument for not being able to anneal I can see this relating to priming but am sure there is a work around there annealing to allow aggressive necking down should happen first, then sizing, then priming....etc etc expensive change to a process that already has tooling machining set up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Makes sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) well you don't hear of the same issue with other bottlenecked rimfire design, certainly not at the level of the HMR now that might be a volume issue.....but I suspect it is more to do with a corner cutting issue .17Mach2 thinner/smaller case and less energy .17WSM we don't know yet but apparently there is brass issues .5mm Rem who uses that anymore, but it is 5mm anyway and the brass was built from scratch! even wildcat hornet cases .22 K Hornet Why would/should there be a problem with this? 17 Hornet Why would/should there be a problem with this? (albeit I realise they are higher pressure from the outset, they also have to deal with the stresses of handloaders pushing the boundaries) Edited January 9, 2015 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 i make the assumption that ALL HMR brass starts life as WMR brass and is then necked rumours that it is necked after charging due to the issues of getting powder into a .17 neck.....I am afraid I dont believe this was the argument for not being able to anneal I can see this relating to priming but am sure there is a work around there annealing to allow aggressive necking down should happen first, then sizing, then priming....etc etc expensive change to a process that already has tooling machining set up There is nothing new in this problem, it was well known even before this, you will note nothing has changed ref the brass some 8 years down the line! From Shooting UK 2007 Bob Palmer at Hornady, in an e-mailed reply to George’s enquiry: CCI makes the cases for all the .17 HMR ammo and loads it for the different companies. When they make the cases they draw the case out to a .22mag case that has a straight wall. Then the priming compound is put in the rim of the case. The case is spun to put the primer evenly in the rim. After the priming is complete the case mouth is reduced to the .17 calibre to hold the bullet. The reduction process, however, puts stress on the neck of the case. They obviously cannot anneal the neck of the case to relieve the stress because of the compound in the rim, so from time to time you will get a case that cracks. Some batches may produce more splits than others. The chamber pressure on .17 ammo is so low that it does not hurt the chamber on the rifle. They have tried to anneal the cases more before it’s formed to .17, but this did not eliminate the cracks altogether. If the cracks were minor I would continue to use the ammo. The cracks do not affect the accuracy of the round and the brass is not reloadable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moorvale55 Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I had lots of problems when using Hornady ammunition, cracked necks and split cases. I changed to CCI 17 grain hollow point and after several hundred rounds have never had a problem. Just a tip if you do get a bullet stuck in the barrel, I purchased a 17hmr cleaning rod with a FEMALE end, if a round gets stuck you can use the rod to push it out as the bullet tip goes into the female thread, a light tap on the end of the rod and the bullet pops out of the breach. This method allows you to carry on shooting if one does get stuck, but, after changing to the CCI I have not needed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I had lots of problems when using Hornady ammunition, cracked necks and split cases. I changed to CCI 17 grain hollow point and after several hundred rounds have never had a problem. Just a tip if you do get a bullet stuck in the barrel, I purchased a 17hmr cleaning rod with a FEMALE end, if a round gets stuck you can use the rod to push it out as the bullet tip goes into the female thread, a light tap on the end of the rod and the bullet pops out of the breach. This method allows you to carry on shooting if one does get stuck, but, after changing to the CCI I have not needed it. Comments such as this are not uncommon, but I find them difficult to understand as CCI makes the Hornady ammo. Indeed, CCI still makes the majority of HMR ammo, Winchester currently make their own, and I understand Remington may well make their own, other than that CCI makes pretty much all of it these days. I can but think/suggest comments as in the post above must simply relate to batch issues, unless anyone can come up with a better suggestion!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lister22 Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I have had some 22 hornet ammo split when fired in my k hornet so I normally fire form the cases using semolina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Callahan Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Iv never noticed a split case when using CCI branded ammo... have seen the odd one with Hornady but still never had any issues which were not my fault. Only thing i will add is i used Remington ammo a year or 2 back and thought it lacked power compared to Hornady and CCI equivelents. I was unhappy with them taking out Carrions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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