Bit of advice from a novice to other novices

[old rooster]

Well I've had my ESS bitch for just over a year now and I'd like to confess that I reckon I've made most of the training mistakes that can be made

 

Just thought I'd outline a few of the things I've done wrong to reinforce the importance of following a good training regime so that others can (hopefully) learn from my mistakes.

 

"A wise man learns from his mistakes, a wiser from the mistakes of others !"

 

From the outset I think I gave the dog too much freedom while out walking and should have kept her closer to me; she now works at too great a distance from me although she will return to two peeps from the whistle. She does quarter the ground quite well once over the intial exuberance while out walking. She pulls like hell on the slip lead despite my pulling her back and saying "heel" I've just got one of those head type Halti leads to see if that will help.

 

I can cast her off to left or right using hand signals, having gained her attention with a single short whistle peep and she will stop to a longer single blast although not if close to moving game.

 

She will not keep out of water and for some reason once anywhere near water all control seems lost.

 

Retrieving is a nightmare; while young she had soft toys given to her to play with by "er indoors" and although incredibly soft mouthed (never torn up any of the toys) will sit while I throw the training dummy, go out and fetch it but not bring it to hand, preferring to prance about with it in her mouth.

 

On the plus side she is good in the car, never does damage around the house, is good (if a bit frisky) with other dogs and generally good tempered.

 

So any of you guys out there are contemplating getting an ESS do read all you can, take training advice and put in the ground work to getting your dog as you want it. I've got a very good training DVD but the dog usually watches it about halfway through then falls asleep !.

 

I think mine still has potential and my next step is to look for some professional advice as I'm far from throwing in the towel, I'd like to visit a good trainer but not one who is too hard on his dogs. We went to Kelmarsh at the weekend and one of the trainers was exhibiting his Springers which all looked very cowed and nervous to me.

 

Anybody got advice on where I can try ?, I'm in South Northants but happy to do a bit of travelling if needs be to get this sorted.

[pin]

If there is a man on here who knows his dog training its NTTF. I am sure when he gets time he will have a few exercises for you to refine things.

 

I know nothing about training gundogs but from the threads I have read with his advice people have been able to sort all kinds of problems out.

 

Decembers Sporting Gun had some advice regards regaining control in water, if you get that particular comic.

[new to the flock]

Old Rooster,

 

I am out for a good part of today and giving a lesson tonight, but if you are interested I will sit down and give you some advice and an out line on where to proceed if you like....later tonight or tommorrow.

 

Let me know

 

NTTF

[old rooster]

Old Rooster,

 

I am out for a good part of today and giving a lesson tonight, but if you are interested I will sit down and give you some advice and an out line on where to proceed if you like....later tonight or tommorrow.

 

Let me know

 

NTTF

 

That would be very much appreciated !!! Always seen the value in what you post here NTTF

 

I suppose it is a question of working out a process of dealing with the issues in the right order to achieve the right outcome.

 

All the best,

 

Rooster

[Country_est]

She will not keep out of water and for some reason once anywhere near water all control seems lost.

 

OR

 

This is a built in survival technique, to stop the water entering the spanials brain the earholes close up upon entering water and neither water (or sound) can enter them.

 

Dont think you are the first to make these mistakes with a spaniel, I did almost the same, apart from the retrieves, mine would release early on the way in with the dummy BUT was fine on game. Easiest fix for the second one was to get a LAB

[Ferretboy111]

Ah ive got all this too look forward too, the art of training a dog.

 

Should be getting my ESS bitch within the next few months.

 

Good luck with her.

 

Alex

 

[ShaggyRS6]

NTTF Is stunning.

 

Sorry. Credit where Credit is due.

 

My ESS has stopped crying Stopped peeing.

[old rooster]

She will not keep out of water and for some reason once anywhere near water all control seems lost.

 

OR

 

This is a built in survival technique, to stop the water entering the spanials brain the earholes close up upon entering water and neither water (or sound) can enter them.

 

Dont think you are the first to make these mistakes with a spaniel, I did almost the same, apart from the retrieves, mine would release early on the way in with the dummy BUT was fine on game. Easiest fix for the second one was to get a LAB B)

 

That's called defeatism innit Springers are more of a challenge but Labs can be naughty little devils as well. It will get sorted, I've been a bit stressed for some time now so currently dealing with that prior to devoting more time to getting the dog right, as I'm sure they can sense it !.

 

Good luck to all of you out there training your dogs, or maybe more "good planning" !

 

OR

[new to the flock]

Old Rooster,

To start with we need to go back a ways to gain our control over her on the lead. The first step of this are to teach her leash control:

 

 

Once this is accomplished and in conjunction with the next exercise we need to teach her to heel:

 

 

 

Remember in the later part of teaching the dog to heel....weeks 3-4 and on.....you do not have to teach her to catch the treats from your mouth. This can beaccomplished just as easy buy treating her from a pouch when she is doing right.

 

I think that it is safe to say that we could work on her retrieveing at the same time, however I need to know a couple of things first.

1. does she sit reliably when you tell her to?

2. will she remain sitting when a dummy or ball is thrown, until sent to fetch?

3. do you have a narrow walkway out side or a straight hallway inside that you can close all doors to while you are effectivly blocking the open end?

 

Once we have the heeling under control and the retrieving delivery under control we will proceed to your other problems of water and quartering. Do you have any other problems that need addressing?.....sits, recall, laydown,?

 

Now this is a bit off topic and I do not know what a trainer over there costs... however if you are interested and if Trix was agreeable, for the cost of the flight 270 pounds and a space on your floor to sleep I would be able to give you basically 6 days of hands on training at the end of May. If this is not feasible then we can and will work this over the computer. Let me know if you are interested, and if yes I will brotch the subject with Trix to see if we can work it out with her time schedual aswell.

 

NTTF

[old rooster]

Old Rooster,

To start with we need to go back a ways to gain our control over her on the lead. The first step of this are to teach her leash control:

 

 

Once this is accomplished and in conjunction with the next exercise we need to teach her to heel:

 

 

 

Remember in the later part of teaching the dog to heel....weeks 3-4 and on.....you do not have to teach her to catch the treats from your mouth. This can beaccomplished just as easy buy treating her from a pouch when she is doing right.

 

I think that it is safe to say that we could work on her retrieveing at the same time, however I need to know a couple of things first.

1. does she sit reliably when you tell her to?

2. will she remain sitting when a dummy or ball is thrown, until sent to fetch?

3. do you have a narrow walkway out side or a straight hallway inside that you can close all doors to while you are effectivly blocking the open end?

 

Once we have the heeling under control and the retrieving delivery under control we will proceed to your other problems of water and quartering. Do you have any other problems that need addressing?.....sits, recall, laydown,?

 

Now this is a bit off topic and I do not know what a trainer over there costs... however if you are interested and if Trix was agreeable, for the cost of the flight 270 pounds and a space on your floor to sleep I would be able to give you basically 6 days of hands on training at the end of May. If this is not feasible then we can and will work this over the computer. Let me know if you are interested, and if yes I will brotch the subject with Trix to see if we can work it out with her time schedual aswell.

 

NTTF

 

Well what can I say to all that !!! Fanbleedintastic doesn't even come close :-)

 

The idea of coming over for a stay sounds great and I'm sure we could sort out some other entertaining diversions as I doubt we could subject either the dog or ourselves to 6 days of solid training. We actually have spare rooms here, unless you are used to sleeping on the floor of course and prefer that option.

 

Probably best discussed offline or some bright spark will suggest that all the folks who have benefitted from your copious and generous advice in the past could get together for an evening during your stay. I'm not a bright spark so it wouldn't even enter my mind of course.

 

Anyway, in the meantime back to your questions:

 

1. does she sit reliably when you tell her to?

 

Yes that is one thing she does quite well.

 

2. will she remain sitting when a dummy or ball is thrown, until sent to fetch?

 

Yes if we are having a good day. More often than not to be honest.

 

3. do you have a narrow walkway out side or a straight hallway inside that you can close all doors to while you are effectivly blocking the open end?

 

Yes to both.

 

Am I right in thinking that giving treats from the trainers mouth is some form of punishment for the trainer for getting it wrong in the first place ? Most things that dogs seem to view as "treats" smell absolutely disgusting and this one isn't very treat orientated at all to the point where I give her a Bonio biscuit last thing at night and she saves it for the morning and eats it while we have breakfast

 

I will get started on the heel training, we will be away for a week half way through that so I'm not sure if it will be better to start when we get back or get going now ?

 

Once again, many thanks for the info !!!

 

OR

[new to the flock]

Rooster,

 

Start the heeling work now, and as for the treats...... go down to the market and pick up some liver. Cover it in powdered garlic and pop it into the oven to dry out. Take it down till dry but dont make shoe leather out of it. The garlic is to help cover the taste of it in your mouth I have yet to have a dog turn its nose up at this.

 

I will get the retrieving stuff up for you a little later today.

 

I may very well be use to sleeping on the floor after I let Trix know I want to go to England for a week to train a dog Let me know if it works for you, like I said I dont know if the rate is a fair representation of what you pay over there for training. As it stands right now I can book a flight into Bermingham on the 23rd of May and back out on the 30th.

 

NTTF

[new to the flock]

Rooster, for the retrieving we are going to break it down into little tiny steps and train her to bring it to you. We are going to start in the house and slowly work our way up to retrieving and delivering in the field. We need to go through around six stages to get where you have a finished retrieve, so no rushing, we need to be absolutely grounded before moving on to the next step each time.

 

 

Part One:

 

Using the hallway in the house, and closing off all doorways that are in it, you are going to sit at the open end on the floor.

 

Sitting on the floor with your feet pointing to both walls, ( legs spread), and using a knotted sock or soft rope toy....do not use a bumper/dummy .....slide the toy around the floor between your legs to get her excited. Ideally you want her trying to catch the toy with both her feet and her mouth. When she is good and excited and in play mode send the toy down the hall by sliding it with force. You do not want the toy tossed through the air yet.

 

She is going to chase after this toy and pick it up, you are then going to praise her with Good Girl, Thata Puppy...in a very excited voice.....the whole time she has it. Once she has picked it up do not call her to you just praise and pat the floor between your legs with the palms of your hands. She will come to you as she has no where else to go. When she reaches you DO NOT reach for the toy. Continue to praise her and pet her and make a fuss of her for upto a minute before reaching to take the toy from her. When you reach for the toy do not take it immediately from her mouth....count to 5 or 10 and then give a command to leave....this will keep her from starting to drop game as soon as you reach over later on in her training and while hunting.

 

If she drops the toy before you reach for it do not worry about it, we can teach a hold command later on. Do not try to put it back into her mouth or get her to pick it back up that is later training. Right now this all has to be nothing but fun.

 

Once you have the toy again repeat the excercise by gettng her excited chasing the toy again and then slide it down the hall. Keep this GAME up for 20 minutes to 1/2 and hour and remember the whole time she is to hear nothing but Good Girl and Thata Girl.....Praise, Praise, Praise. Once she is coming back with tail wagging to you and not trying to prance in front etc. then we can move on.

 

NTTF

[old rooster]

Hi NTTF,

 

Looks like we are stuck with a whole lot of work over the period you could visit so I'm going to be a party pooper this time and thank you for the offer of coming over but for now work on the info you've been kind enough to post here.

 

If you are ever over in the UK with or without "Trix" you are more than welcome to come and stay with us !. We have plenty of room here and are thinking of moving to an even bigger place soon.

 

Best regards,

 

OR

[new to the flock]

Rooster,

 

Let me know when you get to a place in the heeling and the retrieving that we can move on, or if you have any questions that you need answered.

 

NTTF