John_R Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 After my initial good impressions I have now run into a problem with the above shotgun, and would appreciate advice if anyone has encountered this. The gun behaved well the day I got it, I used some 30g Eley High Flyers and got a few wood pigeons. Today I went to shoot clays, and just as I was about to load my 52nd cartridge I found I could not get the bolt to close on pressing the release button. I had no tools with me and decided to quit and go home. At home, I found the only way I could get the bolt to close was to slightly drop the trigger unit out having pushed the retaining pins out. A full strip down showed nothing floating around or broken. The recoil spring, gas mechanism etc all looks OK also. After reassembley the fault remains. It is as though something is fouling and stopping the bolt releasing and snapping forwards again. As an aside would add that I was shooting 28g Comp X and they were not cycling well. I did not get an adjusting wrench with the gun, so I could not tweak the gas settings, and so I had been single loading each round and racking the bolt each time. Any ideas where I should focus my attentions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) After my initial good impressions I have now run into a problem with the above shotgun, and would appreciate advice if anyone has encountered this. The gun behaved well the day I got it, I used some 30g Eley High Flyers and got a few wood pigeons. Today I went to shoot clays, and just as I was about to load my 52nd cartridge I found I could not get the bolt to close on pressing the release button. I had no tools with me and decided to quit and go home. At home, I found the only way I could get the bolt to close was to slightly drop the trigger unit out having pushed the retaining pins out. A full strip down showed nothing floating around or broken. The recoil spring, gas mechanism etc all looks OK also. After reassembley the fault remains. It is as though something is fouling and stopping the bolt releasing and snapping forwards again. As an aside would add that I was shooting 28g Comp X and they were not cycling well. I did not get an adjusting wrench with the gun, so I could not tweak the gas settings, and so I had been single loading each round and racking the bolt each time. Any ideas where I should focus my attentions? THE GAS ADJUSTMENT IS EASY JUST SET YOUR VALVE AS IN THIS PICTURE WITH THE BARREL ON. wITH REGARDS TO YOUR BOLT RELEASE BUTTON.? Well i think some body as forced assembley of the gun at some point in time, and bent one of the pressings out of sync some where, look on the Trigger group at the pressing make sure everything is moving not bent or buckled and make sure the bolt release is moving, it could be the pivot pin as dropped out or warn badly but my guess is the pressings will have been compromised at some point in the guns history. A carefull look should enable you to see whats wrong. Edited August 24, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted August 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Hi Tony, I will get to the gas adjustment later, I just need to get the bolt to behave first. I downloaded a manual before I bought it, so I can see what I need to do on a normal day to day basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 After my initial good impressions I have now run into a problem with the above shotgun, and would appreciate advice if anyone has encountered this. The gun behaved well the day I got it, I used some 30g Eley High Flyers and got a few wood pigeons. Today I went to shoot clays, and just as I was about to load my 52nd cartridge I found I could not get the bolt to close on pressing the release button. I had no tools with me and decided to quit and go home. At home, I found the only way I could get the bolt to close was to slightly drop the trigger unit out having pushed the retaining pins out. A full strip down showed nothing floating around or broken. The recoil spring, gas mechanism etc all looks OK also. After reassembley the fault remains. It is as though something is fouling and stopping the bolt releasing and snapping forwards again. As an aside would add that I was shooting 28g Comp X and they were not cycling well. I did not get an adjusting wrench with the gun, so I could not tweak the gas settings, and so I had been single loading each round and racking the bolt each time. Any ideas where I should focus my attentions? This won't have an impact on the bolt, but comp X are not good for a semi. Low recoil and they're 2.5". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted August 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 This won't have an impact on the bolt, but comp X are not good for a semi. Low recoil and they're 2.5". They do fine in my Benelli M2, which even manages (only just) to cycle the 24g ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 They do fine in my Benelli M2, which even manages (only just) to cycle the 24g ones. Good for you. In fairness benelli make good guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDS Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Is the locking block on the top of the bolt dropping right down and not fouled up with crud/dirt...this may explain you having to lower the trigger unit slightly and then the bolt locking block would come out of battery (if still slightly raised)...if so a good clean and lubricate may solve your problem I am presuming it is similar to a Remington as i have no experience with the Baikal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Hi Tony, I will get to the gas adjustment later, I just need to get the bolt to behave first. I downloaded a manual before I bought it, so I can see what I need to do on a normal day to day basis. Have a good look at the gun, move the bolt button watch it move look on the group see what its touching see how its functioning or not functioning and see what needs to happen, find out why its not doing it and put it right. Not being flipant but its that simple, first thing is not do do is PANIC . Your looking at a pretty simple basic gun here nothing flinsey or delicate about it, its something not moving or something not being alowed to move it this is what you need to look at. Take some pictures if you get real stuck but you wont you got eyes and you will sort it, What you need is possitive vibes. Remember the donald southerland charecter in kelly heroes adopt his attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 This won't have an impact on the bolt, but comp X are not good for a semi. Low recoil and they're 2.5". I agree but the MP153s do ok on them, he just has to adjust the gas valve its probably been set on heavy loads for big lead loads maybe inlanding in scotland perhaps, set back to factory it will manage them no problem,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Is the locking block on the top of the bolt dropping right down and not fouled up with crud/dirt...this may explain you having to lower the trigger unit slightly and then the bolt locking block would come out of battery (if still slightly raised)...if so a good clean and lubricate may solve your problem I am presuming it is similar to a Remington as i have no experience with the Baikal Same basic idea its probably not had the trigger group put in properly just forced in, they dont like this, and they are hardened mettal stampings they can bend about which im guessing could bbe whats happened here, but muck eventualy finding its way to interupt things makes sense as he shot a few rounds through it before it started playing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted August 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Have a good look at the gun, move the bolt button watch it move look on the group see what its touching see how its functioning or not functioning and see what needs to happen, find out why its not doing it and put it right. Not being flipant but its that simple, first thing is not do do is PANIC . Your looking at a pretty simple basic gun here nothing flinsey or delicate about it, its something not moving or something not being alowed to move it this is what you need to look at. Take some pictures if you get real stuck but you wont you got eyes and you will sort it, What you need is possitive vibes. Remember the donald southerland charecter in kelly heroes adopt his attitude. I certainly don't panic, but after poring over the darn thing, feeling for interference, watching things move etc I decided to see if this might be something others have experienced. I am very happy taking things apart, no fear of mechanical things at all. I did a quick Google around and found a couple mentions elsewhere of others having the bolt lock back after shooting a heavy round, and being unable to close without dropping the trigger. However, those threads ( on USA wildfowl forums ) did not go as far as to a conclusion, I think they all decided it was a "go to gunsmith" job. I am not in a rush, I still have the Benelli and a SXS, but I hope to fix this before *too* long. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 I certainly don't panic, but after poring over the darn thing, feeling for interference, watching things move etc I decided to see if this might be something others have experienced. I am very happy taking things apart, no fear of mechanical things at all. I did a quick Google around and found a couple mentions elsewhere of others having the bolt lock back after shooting a heavy round, and being unable to close without dropping the trigger. However, those threads ( on USA wildfowl forums ) did not go as far as to a conclusion, I think they all decided it was a "go to gunsmith" job. I am not in a rush, I still have the Benelli and a SXS, but I hope to fix this before *too* long. Cheers! Post up some pics John if you cant fettle it, there are a few on here with them, including me so others to compare, but i think its something more simple than this, im sure you will find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted August 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 Is the locking block on the top of the bolt dropping right down and not fouled up with crud/dirt...this may explain you having to lower the trigger unit slightly and then the bolt locking block would come out of battery (if still slightly raised)...if so a good clean and lubricate may solve your problem I am presuming it is similar to a Remington as i have no experience with the Baikal Thanks, it is moving freely, and the entire gun is scrupulously clean, and well lubed. I'll take another look in the morning, maybe take a few photos if I still do not solve this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlerob Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 i have one and not have a problem with it and my one is faultless on hull comp x yh cost some pics so we can compare so to speak to see if anything looks suspect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBeaky Posted August 24, 2016 Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 (edited) Thanks, it is moving freely, and the entire gun is scrupulously clean, and well lubed. I'll take another look in the morning, maybe take a few photos if I still do not solve this. It does sound as if there is some cack stuck under the bolt release lever - that or the tiny spring under the bolt release button may have broken and be fouling the lever.Have you taken the release lever out yet? Be careful if you do - the tiny spring is an evil little sod and will run away and hide at the slightest opportunity... Incidentally, mine eats 2.5" cartridges quite happily, and will cycle 24 g loads if the gas valve is wound in some more from where it currently lives. As set now, it won't, but it will cycle 28s reliably, without objecting to the occasional 42 thrown at a fox. The original adjusting spanners aren't great - I made another out of a piece of steel tube. I then found an old sprocket removal tool which also fits (typical that I found it after I had made the first one!). Edited August 24, 2016 by CaptainBeaky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted August 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2016 It does sound as if there is some cack stuck under the bolt release lever - that or the tiny spring under the bolt release button may have broken and be fouling the lever. Have you taken the release lever out yet? Be careful if you do - the tiny spring is an evil little sod and will run away and hide at the slightest opportunity... Yes I did take the lever out, and yes I found that annoying little spring the hard way. So far not got much further, back to it tomorrow now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 I think the bolt release lever has somehow got bent. I will poke around a bit and take a picture. Of course I might be wrong but that's where my gut feeling goes right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 (edited) I think the bolt release lever has somehow got bent. I will poke around a bit and take a picture. Of course I might be wrong but that's where my gut feeling goes right now. Probably got bent by some one forceing the trigger group back in seen it before due to this. Edited August 25, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 (edited) I made an album with some pictures. One image shows how far the release lever protrudes into the receiver, making me wonder if it might be bent. Another shows the lever against a straight edge for reference. I will admit I am not so sure, there are no signs of fatigue or stress on the metal, but certainly open to ideas. http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/John_r1/library/mp153 Edited August 25, 2016 by John_R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 You can certainly see what you are not paying for with the 153. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Is this gun a timber stocked model or synthetic ? I have never had a Timber one just black synthetic, but have a look on the parts diagram see if there is a slieve inside the forend, if its missing or loose some how. Reason i say this is nothing to do with a baikal, but an old SKB i had years ago it had the slieve missing worked then jamed similar to what you say, i found a scrap SKB in a gunshop near leeds put the missing slieve in and it worked faultlessly after that. Most timber stocked semis have a slieve check this out if its timber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 It is timber, but I am certain has nothing to do with the trouble at hand. The bolt jams back with or without the forend on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 I get what you say but the SKB was just the same, just trying to think of anything that could be causing the jam that old SKB issue sprung to mind thats all. Pictures dont show anything obvious ill strip mine tonight when i get home, have a look see if i can think what it might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted August 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Thanks Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBeaky Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 (edited) I made an album with some pictures. One image shows how far the release lever protrudes into the receiver, making me wonder if it might be bent. Another shows the lever against a straight edge for reference. I will admit I am not so sure, there are no signs of fatigue or stress on the metal, but certainly open to ideas. http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/John_r1/library/mp153 Yup, your bolt release catch is properly bent! Never seen one do that before, but as Tony suggests, probably the result of some ham-fisted reassembly by a previous owner. Given the degree of bent-ness, I would suggest replacing it rather than trying straightening. Regarding what you are not paying for - that's Baikal: form follows function. lf it doesn't need to be polished to work, it isn't! Edited August 25, 2016 by CaptainBeaky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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