Si-Bore Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Hey guys I have just been out with my Beretta A303 today for a session on the crows. I am aware that my Beretta shoots generally 80% of the pattern above the bead at 20m (which I concluded through pattern plates). That being the case as the distance increases beyond 20m I presume the pattern will be rising increasingly above the bead the further the target. For example for the gun to shoot up (as it does with the high stock comb) my line of sight in relation to where the gun is pointing is lower. So there will be a point at close range where the gun puts the centre of the pattern on the bead (say 10m for example). I am finding at distances of 30m plus on easy shots like flying straight away from me that I am missing when I place the gun in the same position on the target as I would for close range (<20m) . I know the answer is to pattern plate at these distances but wondered if anyone can shed some light on this for now? Cheers Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatingisbest Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 sounds to me that your gun fit with this gun is wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si-Bore Posted June 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 I actually like the aim point at up to 25m as I float the bird on the bead and don't have to lose sight of it. I thin kit has taught me to mount the gun properly as I used to shoot my s/s low all the time by trying to flatten the rib to the bead instead of looking over it a wee bit. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 As with all projectiles the shot will slow down and fall under gravity. With a bullet it’s called trajectory, but with a shot stream it’s going to slow down very quickly and fall off very rapidly. This means that the shot won’t actually continue to rise as it get further away. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si-Bore Posted June 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Thats a good point Graham and one which I have been considering. Due to its bad BC the shot although very light and flying fast will slow down rather quickly giving a trajectory like arc if fired across gravity (across the ground). If you consider the shot being taken at an angle close to 90' to the ground (straight up) then there will in effect be virtually no curve to the 'trajectory' and the shot will continue to rise above the bead until it actually falls to earth on the otherside of the shooter. B) I'm getting silly now! Think I will get out 'ye olde pattern plates'. B) I will settle my own thoughts via practical experiment. Cheers Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Most sporting shotguns shoot high, that is normal - I forget the ratio but it is something like 60/40 above/below. You should also be looking at the bird/target and not the bead on the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Hey guysI have just been out with my Beretta A303 today for a session on the crows. I am aware that my Beretta shoots generally 80% of the pattern above the bead at 20m (which I concluded through pattern plates). That being the case as the distance increases beyond 20m I presume the pattern will be rising increasingly above the bead the further the target. For example for the gun to shoot up (as it does with the high stock comb) my line of sight in relation to where the gun is pointing is lower. So there will be a point at close range where the gun puts the centre of the pattern on the bead (say 10m for example). I am finding at distances of 30m plus on easy shots like flying straight away from me that I am missing when I place the gun in the same position on the target as I would for close range (<20m) . I know the answer is to pattern plate at these distances but wondered if anyone can shed some light on this for now? Cheers Si It will be a mainly gun fit issue by the sounds of it, prehaps your head is not low enough on the stock (can you see much rib) Its difficult to help really from your description as there are some shots that defy logic, for example i would normally expect to hit a going away (rising) bird by shooting straight at it, however if i want a good break i hold ever to slightly under it. The other point is you shouldnt really be aiming a shotgun as such, its not like a rifle, but im sure you are aware of this. Why not go to a clay ground and ask someone to have a look at you shoot, or even a gunshop, in my local one they can gauge your fit by looking at you holding the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si-Bore Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I definately have my cheek high on the stock (I can see plenty of the rib). The way the stock comb sits on my face it will not go lower as my cheek bone rests on the top. I believe the drop on the gun is adjustable so I may have a crack at increasing the drop after I try out a few pattern plates at a longer distances to see where the shot is going. Does anyone know how to adjust drop on this gun? The PDF manual I have for the gun shows it being done through removal/rearrangement of washers after disconnecting the stock via the screws at the recoil pad but I can't see in the small holes at the pad to see what kind of driver/key it is. Any ideas? Cheers Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy W Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 This might explain what you should be seeing. http://www.a1cooling.co.uk/gunmount.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si-Bore Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Nice example Andy. Thanks! I am definately seeing 'B' if not possibly more of the rib!! I definately need to drop the comb. Do you know what kind of screws are hiding under the recoil pad because according to the manual I have to undo the recoil pad and remove the stock from there. Cheers Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatingisbest Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 This might explain what you should be seeing. http://www.a1cooling.co.uk/gunmount.htm Mine is more like A but i use a s/s with a concave rib, so this is correct gun fit i believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy W Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 If your gun has a mid bead such as a Miroku or Browning, the front bead sits just on top of the mid bead so it looks like a figure of '8', that is the easiest way to explain it, I changed over from a Beretta to a Miroku MK38, it transformed my shooting on the first outing with the new gun. Regarding stock heights etc, Bisley sell an adjustable recoil pad which can be adjusted vertically in effect raising the stock, never tried one but they are cheap enough to try. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bisley-adjustable-bu...1QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 all of the above is exactly my point about not having your head properly on the stock. So as i said, its probably a fiting issue, the main ways to solve this are to either add pull to the stock (has the effect of giving more drop) or have the stock 'bent' to give more drop at heel. However in my experiance ( had 3 guns that didnt fit me properly before finding the correct one because of exactly this problem, so unfortunatly am quite qualified in this area ) 'bending' the stock just gives nasty recoil charactersitcs, as you cannot keep the comb flat (so your face slides along it with the recoil) instead once the stock has been bent its like trying to slide your face up a slope under recoil, and certainly gave my face a pounding. The 301 if i recall has a quite short stock (most beretta semi's do) it does not to my knowledge have the shim system (which after all only adjusts the drop at toe not comb. The long and short of it is this, you probably wont be able to get this gun to fit properly, you could: have some pull added and maybe get the stock bent a little, to give you a better but still not perfect fit. sell the gun and get a 391 which have the adjustable shim system in the stock (ive shot these they would suit you well) however this is expensive. Make do with the gun and learn to shoot underneath things, this is what i have to do if i ever borrow a gun. (BTW an adjustable recoil pad would not in my opinion be a good solution, they move your head around and you can end up with a very strangly proportioned stock) and the reason you get on better with the mk38 is that beretta's have next to no drop on their stocks in most models, where as almost all miroku's have drop at comb in the bucket loads. I should know i shoot a mk70 And another note, you shouldnt be looking at the rib when you shoot anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si-Bore Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 Hey Nick I understand what you are saying. According to the manual all the 301, 302 and 303 models have adjustable drop except the trap model. I have just taken the stock off after checking out the exploded diagram on Beretta.com and typically I have the trap (non adjustable) model! Just my luck!! I practice gun mounting in the mirror - thats why I am aware of the line of sight and view of the rib. I just measured the drop and it is 45 mm which is the minimum drop on the adjustable models. I think 50-55mm would have been much better. Oh well - I will keep going or reach for the credit card! I don't look at the rib when shooting, except if the bird is still in the air of flying slowly away (thats probably why I miss them easy shots). I tend to do my best shots on ones I deem hard where I don't have time to aim and just point and shoot. Cheers Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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