matto Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 What is the procedure with the police on shotgun certificates. Do they check your gun safe before they issue the cert or after? And what if you dont have a shotgun when they check your safe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 The home visit takes place before the certificate is issued. At that time, they will probably ask to see where the gun is going to be kept. As you can,t have a shotgun without a certificate, they won,t expect to see a gun in the gun cabinet (unless someone else in the house has a certificate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 So what is the position in my case then where i want to take my grandson shooting with me? His mother has no intention of allowing him to own his own gun at the age of 11 but is quite happy to let me take him out with me. B.A.S.C. have assured me that he needs his own certificate to use my guns on land that i don't own even under my strict supervision,so there will be no cabinet to view. Plus of course there is nothing in the law that states that the police are entitled to enter your premises to look at security arrangements, only that you have to convince them that they will be kept in a secure place when not in use. Confused? because i have been for years on this point of taking unlicensed people on land that i have permission to shoot over and have yet to receive a satisfactory answer. The best that B.A.S.C. can say clearly is that they welcome a test case in the courts on it. Well it's not going to be me! Sorry if i ramble on but this topic touches a sensitive nerve with me so i will pour a glass of red and calm down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 ernyha, I was under the impression that a non certificate holder, could use a certificate holders shotgun (with them present), on land they had permission to shoot on. What happens when you go to a Clay Ground to see if you like shotgun shooting, prior to applying for a certificate ? Aren,t you allowed to use their guns, under supervision ? Corporate Entertainment days etc. The "old chestnut" about the Police not having the right to enter your premises, to check your security arrangements, makes me laugh. Try to prevent them and see if you get your certificate. As you said, who wants to be the test case. The Firearms Officer (a civilian, I think) at my new location, tried pulling my cabinet off the wall (with the door open) and said he wasn,t satisfied because it felt loose. I think the movement he sensed, was the fat on his chubby fingers flexing. I shut and locked the cabinet and then suggested he try again. Of course, he couldn,t get a grip on it, let alone sense movement. I have always been a great supporter of the Police and the System, even defending them on these Forums. But, the gentleman that came to see me, could easily make me change my mind. "Thick" and "short planks" , were words that came to mind during our conversation. His visit was only because of a change of address and he still spent the first 20 minutes telling me how important he was, imagine how he behaves when its a certificate application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 What happens when you go to a Clay Ground to see if you like shotgun shooting, prior to applying for a certificate ?Aren,t you allowed to use their guns, under supervision ? Corporate Entertainment days etc. Approved clay shoots have licence to allow non certificate holders to shoot on their premises but this does not allow me or anyone else to take non certificate holders onto land that we do not own, only the land owner can do this under his supervision and using his guns. As for visits to "inspect your security", i have been visited twice in my time and on each occasion the inspector (a retired police officer) asked to see my guns to check that the serial numbers matched the information i had given on my application form. This of course meant me taking him to my cabinet to let him check them. At no time was the cabinet (wooden) mentioned let alone touched although checking the numbers was a ply to have a look obviously. I have a copy of the reply i received from BASC regarding unlicensed shooters on private land and have permission to put it up on this forum but unfortunately i haven't the 'puter knowledge to do so. If anyone wants to PM me with their E mail address i will forward it to them and they can publish it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted March 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Hold it,this is confusing me. So , i have sent my form off to the police , they come out and check my gunsafe etc , they then grant me my licence , but i have no shotgun yet , i buy one , then what? How does my new guns serial no's get put on the licence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 When the shotgun certificates were first issued, I already owned shotguns and so the procedure was quite different. I believe that when you apply for a shotgun certificate, you will receive a home visit. Following that visit (all things being OK), you will receive a certificate. You can then purchase a shotgun and will be expected to notify the Police of the make, serial number etc.(details are on the certificate). The person selling you the shotgun has to do the same. You have already agreed as a condition on your certificate, to keep the gun in a secure place. The Police can come and "check your serial numbers", whenever they like. If you know of no reason why you should not get a shotgun certificate, it might be worth purchasing a secure cabinet, before you get your certificate. You will have to have something, before you can take your new shotgun home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted March 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Ahh that explains it better. I have done all the paperwork,photos etc and i have bought a gunsafe but i am waiting for my gunsafe to be delivered and did not know wheather to send my paperwork in or wait until i have fitted the safe. And as i have said i also did not know about the serial numbers on the gun and when they got put on the certificate. It all seems so longwinded,the police could do all this in one go and they should have a leaflet on the full proceedure printed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 It all seems so longwinded,the police could do all this in one go and they should have a leaflet on the full proceedure printed out. Our police force does have a leaflet. Ernyha - Your grandson can get a license without having a gun cabinet of his own. In any case, he is probably not old enough to have a gun in his possession anyway. The firearms officer will be told that the gun he will be using will belong to his Grandfather. Speak to your firearms officer - they will be able to advise. When our firearms officer called, he looked inside and saw the 1/2 inch bolts holding it on and that was enough!!! All things considered, it is better to have your precious guns secure regardless of what the police require. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Ernyha - Your grandson can get a license without having a gun cabinet of his own. In any case, he is probably not old enough to have a gun in his possession anyway. The firearms officer will be told that the gun he will be using will belong to his Grandfather Hammergun i know he can, i was just making the point that you can get a certificate before installing a cabinet as matte was asking the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Gents, On behalf of Ernyha, here's the question and reply from BASC.... Question.... In my case i have permission without giving prior notice, to shoot the land and take a guest of my choice. Normally these are certificate holders so no problem but in the case of my 11 year old grandson, he has no certificate and uses my .410 under my strictest supervision. BASC Answer.... At the moment, the law states that a non-certificate holder on private land must be accompanied by the occupier of that land and must be using their gun in their presence. At the moment, therefore your actions would be illegal. The definition of an occupier, however is a grey area. We are pushing for it to include anyone who has a written agreement/lease on the sporting rights. Any such lease should describe the holder of sporting rights as "the occupier of this ground for the purposes of shooting / fishing". This would make an interesting test case, should it ever come to court. It doesn't help you, though. Having permission to shoot on that land is not strictly enough. You should help your grandson to apply for his own certificate. All the best, Browning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Thanks Browning, i think that reply makes the legal aspect of taking someone out shooting with you pretty clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Very clearn Ern. Looks like I've been illegal as my wife has started to show more of an interest in pigeon shooting (she shoots clays well) and I've started taking her along with me sometimes. I'd best get her cert applied for PDQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled_cky Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 hi i'm 15 and have been using a shotgun for a few months. i should be getting a Beretta soon and would like it under my own certificate. i have not got a certificate yet, i live on a farm so should i be able to get the certificate easily? my dad has a Gun Cabinet to fit 3 i think, it can just fit his O/U , my Single Barrel and the Rifle. would i have to get my own cabinet as another gun wouldnt fit in ?! Aled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbus Polumbus Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Aled If your father keeps his shotguns and his rifle in his cabinet then you will probably need to get your own because if you had a set of keys for the same cabinet then you and your father would be commiting an offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled_cky Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 thanks columbus (Y) i was thinking about getting a cabinet for myself to put my air rifle in aswell when i get a certificate. Aled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Aled, You cannot have your own means of access to your gun until you are 15, and you cannot go out unsupervised until then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled_cky Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 i know, my dad comes out with me on the farm when he has spare time. thanks for the help. Aled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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