Ballie Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 No I haven't gone mad, I just want to know if the police would ever give permission for you to use an existing .243 rifle, which has permission to shoot fox and deer with, to shoot vermin with. If they would it would save me a lot of money, as there would be no need to buy a .223 or 22-250 rifle and scope. Has anyone got permission to shoot vermin with there .243? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john faul Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 if they would bailie it would save you a lot of money :( and on bullets as well no need for zeroing another rifle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 Dought they will let you do it - but maybe if you ask them about using a lighter grain bullet :(? - ask fister he seems to be the man in the know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 No I haven't gone mad, I just want to know if the police would ever give permission for you to use an existing .243 rifle, which has permission to shoot fox and deer with, to shoot vermin with. If they would it would save me a lot of money, as there would be no need to buy a .223 or 22-250 rifle and scope. Has anyone got permission to shoot vermin with there .243? Thanks On the back of my cert it states .243 for the 'destruction of vermin' along with the deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 Yes they will. I have vermin on mine and also on larger calibers. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 All my rifles (from 22 rim to 325WSM) are conditioned for Pest Control and Sporting Purposes as requested by myself - the rimfire also include Vermin control as required by the Home Office. Remember Vermin does NOT include Fox (Small Mammal) and Rabbit (Ground Game) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballie Posted August 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 So do I need to ask for Fox, Deer and vermin? are crows, rabbits classed as vermin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 Have vermin on my cert' for 243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john faul Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 it sounds good for you bailie the 243 would seriously mess up a crows day!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 I suggest you forget Vermin as it is ill defined in law and can easily cause problems when shooting out of county. I have asked and received Pest Control and Sporting Purposes. This combination will cover all quarry from stoats and weasels to seals and deer. You could also shoot troublesome boar and even the odd head shot pheasant for the pot whilst waiting for a deer. (You may also wish to include Humane dispatch of domestic livestock) That being said I would also advise anyone to ensure the local Police understand your shooting requirements if particularly diverse and would therefore suggest a letter detailing your Quarry List with the reasons for your request and asking for written confirmation in reply. I know that my Constabulary appreciates I am able within the terms of my licence to shoot seal but would the local Bobby in the wilds of Northern Scotland without that covering letter. Even more so for Wallabies in Derbyshire or Coypu in Norfolk. There is no cost involved so make sure you cover your back before, rather than trying to do so after, the event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john faul Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 that is good advice you have given there mry716 i would advise you to go for what he said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 Like everything else in life we all have our preferences and not usually for any particular good reason - well not one that would be acceptable to everyone else. I am not a 243 fan as I have seen too many failed shots and too many folk trying to make them do more than they were ever intended to do. For small pest control up to fox/muntjac size they will be fine and will work best with a pretty thin jacketed bullet such as the Speer 70gr HP 'TNT' (NOT for the deer though). I always used those bullets on rabbit, hare and fox with great success but since I no longer have 6mm rifles I would choose the 22-250 as the best all round pest control rifle. There is a wide range of factory ammo available and at least one choice will give excellent results with any makers product. The 222 to me is still the better of the 222/223 choice and although I have both I would always take the 222 at dusk when shots become more difficult. The few extra yards a 223 offers is of little consequence. Instead of the 6mms I prefer the 25s as they give a wider variety of bullet weights and will always shoot 100gr bullets well which some 243s wont. I prefer 100gr + for deer. They are also excellent long range rifles for pest control with lighter bullets and I have used both my 25-06 and esp the 25WSSM out to extended ranges with great effect. If I had a 243 and couldn’t afford another rifle then fine it will do all I ask of it if I restrain myself a little with my quarry list BUT it does mean that you can forever be changing bullets and therefore rezeroing to cope with your various shooting and that alone would incline me to p/e the 243 for a 25 and buy a 22-250 for the general pest control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballie Posted August 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 I suggest you forget Vermin as it is ill defined in law and can easily cause problems when shooting out of county. I have asked and received Pest Control and Sporting Purposes. This combination will cover all quarry from stoats and weasels to seals and deer. Very good advice Mry 716, I will ask for this saying that I would like one rifle to cover all disiplines otherwise I will need to buy more rifles. I am surprised you don't like .243 each to their own and all that but I love the cal however, I haven't had a 25cal. Almost all of my shooting is at fox and other pests with muntjack being the main deer although I can also shoot roe on my estate if I want which is one reason why I use a .243. Mostly I use a 70g nosler bt for fox and a 80g speer hot core sp for muntjack. I am currently using my 17hmr for all other pests but on windy days or at ranges beyond 150 (ie long range crow etc) the .17 hmr is a bit hit or miss and I don't like using it on these days/ranges for fear of wounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 I am sure your 243 will be all you want of it. Good luck with the condition change and Good Shooting M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 I am told in Suffolk/Norfolk people are also having 'wild cat species' added to their quarry lists upon renewal- anyone confirm this as correct? With the greater sightings and their now known existence I presume this are being added to cover your back as well. Any info anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verminer Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 i have a .308 which i use for all my shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Starlight 32 I doubt it would be added without both a specific request and confirmation that the FAC holder is ‘au fait’ with the difficulties of shooting ‘Big Cats’. I have been given the facility but did show I would use both a sufficient calibre and confirmed that I understood the feline anatomy. Also any shots taken at such an animal should be reported to the authorities immediately. Generally speaking the occurrences of sightings are few and the occasions of damage or worst attacks on humans even fewer so there really is no need to be shooting them anyway. Like all the other unusual species in our environment they add to the variety and enjoyment of our landscape. I just wish there was a bear rehabilitation project as that may just curtail some of the dog walkers that never seem to know that they are trespassing. A head shot even from a 308 can easily ricochet because of the shape of the skull and the last thing the locality wants is a wounded and subsequently hungry cat such as a Black Leopard. This could result in it attacking either a person kneeling or bending over and certainly children would be a possible target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Why would anyone want to head shoot a big cat? I'd have thought that a heart shot, just like a good deer shot, would do the best job? I always thought the only reason people consider head shooting deer was to reduce meat damage, so why would you take a risky shot on something that could possibly kill you if you *** it up?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 If a cat is charging where else would you have to shoot ? Do you know where a cats heart is? Most folk don't and and a lung shot would leave you open to attack and very likely fatal wounds. Deer tend to run away when hit whereas cats tend to do the opposite. We are not talking 'pussies' here but an animal that can jump into the low branches of a tree with a calf in their mouth. Do you actyually realise how big a leopard or a lion is - the circle you make with your arms may just about go around a Lion's head and he will stand eye to eye with you when his head is raised and then when he roars at you from a couple of feet you will shake not with fear but simply from the vibrations of his his exhaling breath. They are super on Telly but quite not so great in the wild - honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballie Posted August 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Listen here guys, I have enough trouble with foxes eating my birds please stop talking about big cats or I won't sleep tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazza Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 If a cat is charging where else would you have to shoot ? Do you know where a cats heart is? Most folk don't and and a lung shot would leave you open to attack and very likely fatal wounds. Deer tend to run away when hit whereas cats tend to do the opposite. We are not talking 'pussies' here but an animal that can jump into the low branches of a tree with a calf in their mouth. Do you actyually realise how big a leopard or a lion is - the circle you make with your arms may just about go around a Lion's head and he will stand eye to eye with you when his head is raised and then when he roars at you from a couple of feet you will shake not with fear but simply from the vibrations of his his exhaling breath. They are super on Telly but quite not so great in the wild - honest. I get the feeling you are talking from experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mry716 Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Shooting them NO - as far as I am concerned my shooting is for food or pest control and I could never kill a big cat for the sake of it. But I have been within paw striking distance of an angry male Lion, tickled a wild Lioness under the chin, laid down with a female Leopard and played with Cheetah cubs in front of their mother - albeit in a rehab' sanctuary in the Kruger. A memory of a lifetime and I feel very privileged to have been afforded the opportunity when your average tourist would have only been able to see such at a considerable distance. Like everything in life it is not what you know but who you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazza Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Shooting them NO - as far as I am concerned my shooting is for food or pest control and I could never kill a big cat for the sake of it. But I have been within paw striking distance of an angry male Lion, tickled a wild Lioness under the chin, laid down with a female Leopard and played with Cheetah cubs in front of their mother - albeit in a rehab' sanctuary in the Kruger. A memory of a lifetime and I feel very privileged to have been afforded the opportunity when your average tourist would have only been able to see such at a considerable distance. Like everything in life it is not what you know but who you know. in light of what you've just said.......and in my book, experience counts................I'll take your word for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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