Guest cookoff013 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 guys... i`m planning to do another volumetric assay with nontoxic shot. i`ll be doing it again in 12gauge, bismuth / nice shot / itx10 / maybe something else. maybe at about 36g loadings, so one step up from my last. 3" fibre wad. i`ll have offcuts of shot. and while i`m at it i should do a 20gauge version, like my old nontoxic assay. i should probably go straight to fibre. so, anyone close to me reload 20gauge? the goal is to get something tested and pass with various nontoxic shot. a local guy would help stacks because i`ve never reloaded. i`ve pretty much got the 12gauge covered. cook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 Where are you ❓❓ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 i`m in west suffolk. haverhill/. near cambridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 The OP is about as clear as mud to me 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 shame you are not closer andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 what pressures do you guys 20gauge guys tend to reload to. i hit some paydirt, and got some data for ssb150 in 20gauge, lead and steel data. it gives me a start to throw in some itx10, niceshot, bismuth, lead. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenholland Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 got a bag full of gamebore subsonics 20 gauge free on collection for reloading , Oldbury west midlands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, cookoff013 said: what pressures do you guys 20gauge guys tend to reload to. i hit some paydirt, and got some data for ssb150 in 20gauge, lead and steel data. it gives me a start to throw in some itx10, niceshot, bismuth, lead. etc. There is absolutely no difference to 12g reloading apart from slower powders. What do you think is different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 Im more thinking about the efficiency. When i tested a load of 12ga nontoxic i used vectan A1 and 36g lead load to abuse. Running near ish to the 740 limit. 750 actually. thats the limit to that powder .But wondering because the limit for 20 is 800bar or so. That was pushing a powder hard. If i do something similar in 20 just wondering how peaky it can get. If i run something like that. It is predictable to what it does because it is efficient. Or i can step into Hp1050 bar teratory. 250bar between 800 and 1050. Variation and limited stats might kill the fun/data Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 I am sorry but i do not understand what you are trying to achieve, All i know is that in lead 7/8ths oz is best shot charge in overall performance and patterning generally, and in steel 21 gram is good in the same sort of way. Not sure if that vfits in with what you need or not. Propelemt is a big thing in 20s and though many work, true performance in the 20 i think is to be found with lil gun. its ideal in the 20s, and newer lots of A steel are not too bad either. But top tip LIL Gun. in the 20. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, lancer425 said: I am sorry but i do not understand what you are trying to achieve, All i know is that in lead 7/8ths oz is best shot charge in overall performance and patterning generally, and in steel 21 gram is good in the same sort of way. Not sure if that vfits in with what you need or not. Propelemt is a big thing in 20s and though many work, true performance in the 20 i think is to be found with lil gun. its ideal in the 20s, and newer lots of A steel are not too bad either. But top tip LIL Gun. in the 20. . Isn't Lil gun a 410 powder, hence the name? I think csb3 will be my next 24 gram 20gauge powder. Edited January 2, 2020 by sitsinhedges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 19 minutes ago, sitsinhedges said: Isn't Lil gun a 410 powder, hence the name? I think csb3 will be my next 24 gram 20gauge powder. Lil gun is awesome in the 20 bore, no idea what its made for, in .410 i would use SP3 i not seen anything to get near that in the .410. not all things considered. Have a good read of this web page and dave in AZs page good info on the 20bore many types of loads or shot types. including some lil gun info you might find interesting. https://sites.google.com/site/hobbyhintstricksideas/Home/reloading-modern-20-gauge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Lil gun is awesome in the 20 bore, no idea what its made for, in .410 i would use SP3 i not seen anything to get near that in the .410. not all things considered. Have a good read of this web page and dave in AZs page good info on the 20bore many types of loads or shot types. including some lil gun info you might find interesting. https://sites.google.com/site/hobbyhintstricksideas/Home/reloading-modern-20-gauge Lil gun is approaching £100 a kg against maybe £40 for what are standard 20g powders. Far too uneconomical. Vectan AS, A1 and A0 would be my choice if we hadn't been screwed by Lyalvale refusing to sell in economical drums. Now it's gonna be Maxam CSB3 if John from FES ever manages his planned journey this way. I'll edit this to say I'm talking about standard lead loads, not steel or other non tox which may be a completely different scenario. Edited January 2, 2020 by sitsinhedges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, sitsinhedges said: Lil gun is approaching £100 a kg against maybe £40 for what are standard 20g powders. Far too uneconomical. Vectan AS, A1 and A0 would be my choice if we hadn't been screwed by Lyalvale refusing to sell in economical drums. Now it's gonna be Maxam CSB3 if John from FES ever manages his planned journey this way. I'll exit this to say I'm talking about standard lead loads, not steel or other non tox which may be a completely different scenario. I know it is not cheap, but it is in my opinion worth the money, but it all depends what you want to do. Cookoff seems to be looking for options .opinions i just passed on what i have found, just a shame i do not understand exactly what he is trying to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 12 hours ago, lancer425 said: I am sorry but i do not understand what you are trying to achieve, All i know is that in lead 7/8ths oz is best shot charge in overall performance and patterning generally, and in steel 21 gram is good in the same sort of way. Not sure if that vfits in with what you need or not. Propelemt is a big thing in 20s and though many work, true performance in the 20 i think is to be found with lil gun. its ideal in the 20s, and newer lots of A steel are not too bad either. But top tip LIL Gun. in the 20. . i am trying to achieve the same thing i did with the 12gauge, one powder, one wad, many shot types. with credible data. fibre wad, nontoxic options. maybe 3" maybe HP1050. i dont know, not sure. i`m just rolling ideas, the data i created last time was quite handy. i can fire any nontoxic shot below a density of 12, or fire reduced nontoxic payloads upto 36g of (probably) any shot material available. my goal is to do the same in 12gauge again fibre. but also with the leftover shot to do the same in 20gauge. i got the 12 gauge test covered. i`m looking at options for the 20gauge powders. i cant use a powder for both, but the shot types might be itx10, niceshot, bismuth, lead ,maybe copper shot? that might be it for the test as its fibre wad. as little gun is a .410 and maybe 28 gauge powder it could be impossible to get it burning right as those powders .410 style burn rate, need to be run full throttle to work well. my tests will mean i`m adding less payload with the different densitys shot. it may kill the load if its not efficient enough to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 I would like to do a few tests on csb5 in 20g with 21gram lead to replace my AS data. That was a really good light load. Birmingham is an hour away but it's finding the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 yeah, its finding the time. i do alot in my annual leave time, i ended up putting my reloaders in the kitchen and just press out 100+ test loads. then a month wait until i get to brum. they just sit there in bags and i pass them over when i can afford it. those tests are expensive. i`m just screening so i do 5 shot strings. but for quality data i`d bang off 10 or more. its the s2n the 2 standard deviations upper limit that really screws some of my loadings. when you fire more than 10 shells you have better stats. because there is more chance of having loads that express the whole pressure range. infact a few of my loads that failed, probably should have passed, because they failed the variance s2n test. if i shot more data points they may have passed. (i re-calculated using the criteria for 10 datapoints.) data, is data, i`m confident that the loads were fine. but data / variance says no. i`m sure the data is correct. if only i loaded 1 grain less powder ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) Lil gun, is perfect for 20 its used a lot in 20ga. Check out the link i posted and other data on this powder. It is better than Any powder from aliant in the 20 in my experience. A steel works but not like lil gun. On your one powder does it all theme. if i were to try doing this i would probably look at Longshot as a starting point. Edited January 3, 2020 by lancer425 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 The list is probably around bluedot. Longshot data to 1,1/4oz and 3" . Its kind of a very good start. Its great start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, cookoff013 said: The list is probably around bluedot. Longshot data to 1,1/4oz and 3" . Its kind of a very good start. Its great start. Blue dot is a fantastic powder, and in heavy 1 oz loads it will work reasonable well or with bnheavier loads, but 15/16ths 7/8ths or 3.4 oz, its going to be dirty and not give fantastic results in these loads. Longshot will do the lighter loads and still cope with 1 oz. Case volume is against you on the 20, in some ways this is a god send with heave toungsten based shot, but bismuth or other lead area spacific gravity shot or steel room is not at a premium. Blue dot is not bulky like nobel 82 but its not the best. One other Aliant you could try that would do your lighter loads. Herco. but it might have been one of those powders that fell victim to the chemical (REACH) EU legislation, so you might need to research that. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 Vectan A0 will probably do what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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