russ91 Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 hi evry 1 i have been shooting pigeon for about 2 months now i have not yet got my SGC but hav a fare bit ov land that i have permition to shoot on i am looking for some one to show me the ropes and come have a good shoot. i have been going on this land for a wile now and have taken one ove my friends on who has shotguns and out best bag yet is 150 fat pigeon russ ps idealy some one who has more than one shotgun have shot lots ov times b4 both clays and pigeon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chess Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 what kind of land have you been shooting over Russ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caeser Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 hi evry 1 i have been shooting pigeon for about 2 months now i have not yet got my SGC but hav a fare bit ov land that i have permition to shoot on i am looking for some one to show me the ropes and come have a good shoot. i have been going on this land for a wile now and have taken one ove my friends on who has shotguns and out best bag yet is 150 fat pigeon russ ps idealy some one who has more than one shotgun have shot lots ov times b4 both clays and pigeon. If you've shot 150 woodpigeon, I don't think you need someone to show you the ropes. I'm curious why does the person have to have more than one shotgun ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caeser Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 hi evry 1 i have been shooting pigeon for about 2 months now i have not yet got my SGC but hav a fare bit ov land that i have permition to shoot on i am looking for some one to show me the ropes and come have a good shoot. i have been going on this land for a wile now and have taken one ove my friends on who has shotguns and out best bag yet is 150 fat pigeon russ ps idealy some one who has more than one shotgun have shot lots ov times b4 both clays and pigeon. If you've shot 150 woodpigeon, I don't think you need someone to show you the ropes. I'm curious why does the person have to have more than one shotgun ? Read again mate cos he dont got one so needs to loan one while out with some one else I did guess that ,I just wanted him to say that. I'm not sure if thats legal. I'm sure someone on here knows for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ91 Posted September 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 as long as i am with the the owner and on privet land with shooting rights this is legal ow and im shaw the 150 was pure look it was a nice breezy day and i was sat under a very good flightline over barley stuble russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 russ91 I fear that your interpretation of the law is flawed. My understanding is that a none certificate holder may shoot a shotgun belonging to the landowner and is accompanied by him. Not quite the same thing. A visit to BASC web site may clarify matters. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Ha Not a lot of people know that…… (but they should !) Section 11 (5) of the Firearms Act of 1968 states: " A person may, without holding a shotgun certificate, borrow a shotgun from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the occupier’s presence." Section 11(6) states: " A person may, without holding a shotgun certificate , use a shot gun at a time and place approved for shooting at artificial targets by the chief Officer of police for the area in which that place is situated." So…… What does all this mean to me as a game or rough shooter? It means that you can't just lend your shotgun to someone who hasn’t got a certificate - unless you are the occupier of private land, on that land, with you present all the time the non-certificate holder has the gun, or you’re at a clay pigeon layout which has had written permission from the Chief Constable for non-certificate holders to shoot at that time. If you let someone without a certificate use your shotgun in other circumstances, it is likely that you are committing a criminal offence, and you run the risk of losing your certificate and being fined, or worse. Many people believe that if they’ve got permission to shoot over land, they can take someone without a certificate onto that land and let them shoot their shotgun. This is NOT the case. Please, when you are considering lending a shotgun to anyone who doesn’t have a certificate, think of this, and if you have ANY doubt contact the BASC Firearms Department on 01244 573 010. We can help and advise. ve a look at this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ91 Posted September 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 actualy guys iv contacted the firearms office and this is a e mail they sent me back. You can use another person's shotgun whilst in their presence. If you have any further queries please ring 01924 292312 or 292310 and we will be happy to answer them. Firearms Licensing russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk shooter Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 Section 11 (5) of the Firearms Act of 1968 states: " A person may, without holding a shotgun certificate, borrow a shotgun from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the occupier’s presence." I believe that for 'Occupier' (in this instance), the law interpretes tenants/tenant farmers and those under employment/payment with permission from Owner as the occupier. which concur's with Russ91's email from his FLO to say that as long as he his in the prescence of the owner(s) of the shotgun he is using and that that person(s) has permission or is under paid employment of the owner then he is covered. Think about it, how do these pigeon guides get around the law otherwise. There are those that have guns for hire as part of the package, likewise how can you shoot deer with an 'Estate' rifle if the company you are shooting with only leases or has the rights to shoot over that land. SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazbrit Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 Where abouts in leeds are you Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 russ I would print out the email and keep it really safe. You may need to rely on it one day. Try contacting BASC firearms dept and see if you get the same answer. I would trust their information more. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ91 Posted September 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 Where abouts in leeds are you Russ i am based at morley in leeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ91 Posted September 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 for those of you that was wondering if this is legal i have emaild the basc firearms officer and he replied with the folowing Russell Section 11(5) of the 1968 Firearms Act allows an individual, without holding a shotgun certificate, to borrow a shotgun from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the occupier’s presence. The term occupier does not mean owner, but a person who has the right of hunting or shooting on that land. To answer your question, before your friend would be allowed to shoot you would need permission to shoot over land (preferably in writing stating that you are the occupier whilst shooting and giving you the authority to allow your friend to shoot). Then you would be legally allowed to lend your friend the shotgun under your supervision. regards Alan Booth Firearms Officer BASC Marford Mill Rossett Wrexham LL12 OHL Tel: 01244 573010 E-mail: alan.booth@basc.org.uk Web: www.basc.org.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBLATCH Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 for those of you that was wondering if this is legal i have emaild the basc firearms officer and he replied with the folowing Russell Section 11(5) of the 1968 Firearms Act allows an individual, without holding a shotgun certificate, to borrow a shotgun from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the occupier’s presence. The term occupier does not mean owner, but a person who has the right of hunting or shooting on that land. To answer your question, before your friend would be allowed to shoot you would need permission to shoot over land (preferably in writing stating that you are the occupier whilst shooting and giving you the authority to allow your friend to shoot). Then you would be legally allowed to lend your friend the shotgun under your supervision. regards Alan Booth Firearms Officer BASC Marford Mill Rossett Wrexham LL12 OHL Tel: 01244 573010 E-mail: alan.booth@basc.org.uk Web: www.basc.org.uk sounds to me that would be ok but what would the wording of occupier mean to pc plod ? i tink of the occupier as owner or living within that land.a funny one to work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 That sounds about right to me Russ, I've always been led to believe that the occupier can be the person/persons who have the shooting rights on the land. As a matter of courtesy though I always ask the owner if any other people can accompany me beforehand, just to keep on his good side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulkyuk Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 occupier - when concerned with shooting means the person who has the shooting rights ( or thier appointed party) so as russ has been trying to tell you all along, he can use someone elses gun!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ91 Posted September 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 occupier - when concerned with shooting means the person who has the shooting rights ( or thier appointed party) so as russ has been trying to tell you all along, he can use someone elses gun!!!! thank you for the suport on this subject glad we have cleared that up... russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Ah, but as I understand it; is it not russ who holds the permission to shoot, and it therefore by your implication the occupier. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ91 Posted September 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Ah, but as I understand it; is it not russ who holds the permission to shoot, and it therefore by your implication the occupier. webber you understand rong then it is me that holds the writen permission to shoot on this farm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 russ please read again and understand my post. We are in agreement that by implication you are the occupier! but you do not own a shotgun and are not licensed for a shotgun. I really do think that you should bounse this one off the BASC firearms department. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 rusI have just read BASCs reponse. Regretfully I fear that the officer has misunderstood the case as presented. My interpretation of his reply is that he understands that you are the occupier by virtue of written permission, correct. BUT He them appears to assume that you as the occupier wish to loan a gun to a friend, where in actual fact you wish to loan a gun from a friend, not quite the same thing. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ91 Posted September 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 rusI have just read BASCs reponse. Regretfully I fear that the officer has misunderstood the case as presented. My interpretation of his reply is that he understands that you are the occupier by virtue of written permission, correct. BUT He them appears to assume that you as the occupier wish to loan a gun to a friend, where in actual fact you wish to loan a gun from a friend, not quite the same thing. webber the email that i sent his stated that i dint hold a SGC but he replie that i was aloud to borow a shot gun as long as i was with the owner of the shotgun. russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 russ Please read the BASC response very carefully. It is clear that you do not understand what you have been advised. If you are the occupier, how can you loan a shotgun to a friend, if you do not own a shotgun. The wording is clear and precise. It does not allow the obverse, ie the unlicensed occupier to borrow a gun from a licensed friend and shoot it in his presense, which is what you are implying, but not what the law states. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ91 Posted September 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 russ Please read the BASC response very carefully. It is clear that you do not understand what you have been advised. If you are the occupier, how can you loan a shotgun to a friend, if you do not own a shotgun. The wording is clear and precise. It does not allow the obverse, ie the unlicensed occupier to borrow a gun from a licensed friend and shoot it in his presense, which is what you are implying, but not what the law states. webber ok ill email the office agane the police firearms officer have said this is ok russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Here's the page on the BASC website that tells you clearly that you are in the wrong. http://www.basc.org.uk/content/lendingashotgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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