17 HMR Penetration Test – Nothing Serious

[sandersj89]

Had the chance to set up a little test with the HMR comparing Remington 17gr Vmax ballistic tips with CCI 20gr hollow point.

 

First off all I made 4 targets, these where made up of 3 14cm square bits if ply held apart with battens to form a thick sandwich. The first piece of 1.5cm thick, the gap to the next piece of ply was 1cm, then a piece of ply 1cm thick, another gap of 1cm and a final piece of ply 1cm thick.

 

Looking down from above the target looked like this:

 

 

I then set 2 targets at 50m and 2 at 120mm, range confirmed with a lazer range finder.

 

Next I proceeded to shoot at each block 3 shots at each with the selected ammo so that one block at each range was for 17gr and the other for 20gr. I was not trying for good groups, just a scatter of shots onto the targets to see the effect of the wood.

 

This is the front of the 17gr board:

 

 

This is the front of the 20gr board:

 

 

This is the rear of the 17gr board:

 

 

This is the rear of the 20gr board:

 

 

It is very obvious at this range the 17gr is expanding more and ripping out more of the wood at the rear. The 20gr seems to almost get a clear pass through.

 

Next the 100m targets, I used these twice in the end as I pushed the targets back another 40m so there are two groups of shots on both boards.

 

This is the front of the 17gr board:

 

 

This is the front of the 20gr board:

 

 

This is the rear of the 17gr board:

 

 

This is the rear of the 20gr board:

 

 

At 100m the 17gr is still making a good attempt at exiting the target but at 140m it is struggling a little and it seems in a couple of the shots it could not quite make it through the wood.

 

For the 20gr CCI there stills seems to be a good penetration and pass through at both 100m and 140m, not much in the way of “exit†wound on the wood and I could clearly seem the impact of the bullet in the earth of my back stop. If I had more time I would have push another target out to 180m but the light was going a little.

 

In summary I like the way the 17gr Vmax “shatters†and does a lot of damage and that will stay my round of choice on rabbits/crows. The 20gr obviously packs a big punch but I worry how it deforms and transfers it’s energy to the target. On rabbits it confirms the shooting straight through I have seen but I think it may have a place as a fox round at less then 130m or so.

 

Still, nothing very scientific and just a bit of fun.

 

Jerry

[Dougy]

good test that,

 

 

but dont you think that 120mm was an unsafe distance to shoot from,

 

I know it was late on in the night sorry

[BigGun1]

Hi Mate!!

 

Great bit of balistics testing! well done, if more people did things like this I belive it would result in fewer animal doing runners or being left wounded as people would choose the most effective round for thier quarry.

How about a section on Pigeon Watch for balistics test results??

[sandersj89]

but dont you think that 120mm was an unsafe distance to shoot from,

 

 

Doh....sorry. 120m obviously!

[invector]

Shooting at boards won't tell you much about expansion and penetration in living tissue.

[sandersj89]

Shooting at boards won't tell you much about expansion and penetration in living tissue.

 

 

True, but it does go some of the way to demonstrate the differing characteristics of the two rounds that many talk about.

 

As I said, nothing too serious but interesting none the less.

 

Jerry

[BigGun1]

+1

 

fun it may be but the results are pretty meaningless in relation to flesh and blood.

 

I will say one thing though, it does remind you that these things ARE NOT TOYS. I was pretty shocked at the hole my 22-250 made through steel plate at 300 yards.

 

Bl@@dy hell!! how thick was the steel??? what ammo were you using and whats the velocity at 300 yards?

 

And no, shooting wood is not that scientific, compared to balistic gelatin but it gives a good indication of how much energy you are going to disipate on the initial impact and the amount of energy carried over/wasted, when comparing two different types of ammo, I think also that this pretty much proves that a 17HMR has enough energy to take out charle at 120 yards

[sandersj89]

+1

 

fun it may be but the results are pretty meaningless in relation to flesh and blood.

 

I will say one thing though, it does remind you that these things ARE NOT TOYS. I was pretty shocked at the hole my 22-250 made through steel plate at 300 yards.

 

And no, shooting wood is not that scientific, compared to balistic gelatin but it gives a good indication of how much energy you are going to disipate on the initial impact and the amount of energy carried over/wasted

 

No access to balistic gel sadly, I guess you could use a piece of meat to get a better idea, something like a piece of belly pork, thick skin and muscle over bones.

 

But I would rather roast it and eat it!

 

[al4x]

glad to see you tried the test sanders, I was surprised and to an extent it confirms pretty much what its meant to, that despite the rumours that the ballistic tips explode on the surface they don't. It also shows that the penetration by the 20 grain bullets is very good to me too good considering the size of the hole it makes.

To me it also says in the right conditions it will do for charley out to a fair range

[sandersj89]

To me it also says in the right conditions it will do for charley out to a fair range

 

I will be trying it, did have an attempt Saturday night but Charlie would not play ball and give a safe shot, spent an age trying to get close and a safe shot.

 

When close no safe shot, when he was too far aways nice safe position....grrrrrr

 

Sometimes I hate a few hills, charlie likes to sit just on the brow!

 

Jerry

[Dunkield]

Although it isn't flesh and bone as has been stated, it is still usefull and confirms another similar test results a friend of mine carrieid out.

It may also help to dispell the myth that 17 rounds always explode on impact with anything

[invector]

Perhaps you are ignoring the fact that wood will keep the bullets together, when they might otherwise fragment? Certainly if you shoot foxes, with the 17 grain pill, you run the risk of shallow splash wounds, especially if you hit the bones in the shoulder. That's why I always use 20 grainers, when I'm rabbiting, because a fox often pops out just asking for it, and these hollow point bullets penetrate better.

[al4x]

on that test you find fragments of the ballistic tip and copper in every layer of wood. What it shows is the hollow points do punch straight through things leaving a very small hole and not much damage. With rabbits this just means they don't kill as cleanly if you pull a shot slightly, and with foxes etc with chest shots it gives them more ability to run a short distance as the damage and shock is far less than with the ballistic tips

[invector]

The possibility of a shoulder shot and a shallow wound, with the 17 grains, on a fox isn't worth it. Use the 20 grains to get better penetration. Or better still don't shoot foxes with a .17HMR!!!