Cakie174 Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Hi Is it possible to decoy crow, rooks, jackdaws and magpies so that they can be taken safely with a 22 rimfire. I have a problem of growing numbers were i live in th e trees that our farm. The problem is that i right bang on top of a hill and when they present them selves i feel that the shot may not be safe as i am shooting into a ridgeline tree and there is not visable back stop. Can i coax them to the grown to a safe location? How dangerous is this? i have been told that it with the CCI subs i have been using that there is no real threat. Can anyone please comment am i being overly cautious if that is possible when shooting? Thanks in lieu. Cakie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ROBSON Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 You used to be able to get "shorts" for shooting out of trees with. They were only half as long as a standard subsonic round and had a lighter bullet. I'm not sure if they are still around. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob G Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 If you are not 101% sure of a safe shot DON'T pull the trigger.Try laying a rabbit with it's guts hanging out in a safe area.If possible use a high seat,that way you will be shooting into the ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled_cky Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 for a rimfire they say it can still kill a human at 2miles.. i would never should anything in a tree with a rifle, very unsafe. Aled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 Cakie, No, you can never be too cautious when shooting, but, I am surprised that you are even considering this sort of shot. As a responsible firearms owner you should know the capabilities of your firearm. On a technical note I have done some rough calculations based on a 22lr bullet, weighing 40 g and travelling at 1100 fps ( that is a CCI sub). In theory the bullet could reach 900 yards and have a terminal energy of 23.2 ft lbs. It could go further if you find the optimum angle to fire it at. Need I say anymore, as you will have no way of knowing what it will be hitting at that range ? I agree with Rob G and Aled. You have to be absolutely certain of your backstops. If you can't organise one, then stick to the shotgun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ROBSON Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 The shorts I was talking about were actually designed for shooting Crows, Rooks etc out of trees. I never used them but they weren't suposed to be much more powerful than a strong airgun. Has anyone ever heard of them??? Does anyone know what the energy would be for an FAC airgun of say 30 ft-lbs at 300 yards. I would imagine you would still have to be very careful in picking your shots. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cakie174 Posted June 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Thanks Guys I aggree with your comments and it was what i expected. I am interested to hear more about the "shorts" alyough i belived that they were for pistol and would work with the longer chamber as with the 22lr. The main reason i approached the question was two reasons. Firstly in a recent espisode of Escape to River Cottage it showed some lordship pinging of pigeons perched on his out buildings ridge tiles. Secondly i discussed this with a friend and gundealer and they said " the rounds that you are using (CCI Subs) should offer no real danger within the area which i live". Now the area i live is rural but not remote and i would suggest that there is 16 houses within my shooting ground and 2 miles plus of it. I would not ever risk an unsafe shot and that is why i asked the question to my dealer and secondly to the forum. It only takes one bad shot to kill someone and even hooded crows arn't worth that. Be safe Cakie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 I saw that episode of river cottage aswell cakie. If you want to coax the magpies and crows into range try a predator call it usually works for me, but they probably won't land on the ground so you will need a shotgun to shoot them. Good luck ollie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Cakie, There are four versions of the CCI shorts that you are asking about. CCI short 29g solid bullet...1080 fps. CCI short 27g hollow point...1105 fps CCI CB short 29g...710 fps CCI short target 29g...830 fps I think you are referring to the CCI CB Short as it is advertised as a reduced charged cartridge for vermin and pest control. However it is still a potent little cartridge, its muzzle energy is 32.7 ft lbs, at 500 yards it is still capable of 8.6 ft lbs. I am fairly sure I have dabbled with them years ago, and that they are capable of being fired out of a 22 lr. I ,too ,saw the River cottage episode. What a bad example that rifle owner set to the British public. Even if he was firing CB shorts, he was still capable of sending those bullets 500+ yards on the other blind side of his barn. Bloody irresponsible. I don't agree with your dealer. He can't say if the cartridges you are using " should offer no real danger". You are the only one who can decide that . And only then by taking the shot knowing there is a suitable backstop if you miss. As you say, Cakie, be safe. M.Robson, What calibre are we talking for your 30 ft lb air rifle ? Any idea of its muzzle velocity ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ROBSON Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Sniper, I was really just curious about FAC air rifles in general, do you have to treat them with the same manner as a .22Rf when dealing with backstops. I mean you couldn't take a shot at a bird in a tree with a low trajectory using an FAC air rifle without having a safe backstop. I know this applies to every air rifle but will an FAC air rifle perform along the lines of a subsonic RF would and send the pellet several hundred yards and still be quite potent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 M Robson, If you could give me your calibre and velocity, over a chronograph, I would be able to work out a rough figure for energy at various ranges. It has to be a guide because I don't think you can find the ballistic coefficient ( i.e. the efficiency of the pellet cutting through the air ) which is needed for these calculations. I wouldn't expect an FAC air rifle to outperform a 22lr but until I get your figures I can't be sure. On the question of safety the air rifle and 22lr can be one of the most dangerous guns around as they fire a pellet/bullet comprised soley of lead. If it ricochets it will keep flying. My 223 is a far safer gun because I specifically use a bullet which I know will literally explode when it hits something. This is due to its design and the far greater speed/energy the loaded cartridge, when fired, is imparting into the bullet. I would never consider using a 22lr to fire at vermin in trees. If you miss where is it going I've also extended this safety to my shotgun usage. That is, the CPSA recommend a distance of 250 yards for safe shooting using 6/7 shot. That will do for me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 just a query to you all ,here in canada ,we have a round fron hornady , its a .17"cal jacket ,basicaly a .22" horandy magnum r/f kneck to .17",it has i beleive around 2400 fps at muzzle an extremely flat trajectory ,it shhots well and as sniper said of his .223 explodes on impact (target twig or even grass) do you have that cal and weapon available in the uk ??, by the way im an old bristolian of birth,happy hunting people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sniper Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Last Engineer, Yes, we have the Hornady 17hmr. Its been with us for a year or two. I think quite a lot of people are still making up their minds about its capabilities and drawbacks. If I didn't already have the 22lr and 223 ( I can load down if needs be) I might consider just one rifle, in this calibre. Did you know we have another Canadian on here, New To The Flock ? Happy shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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