ShaggyRS6 Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 I have a question with regards my ESS Aero, coming on really well thanks to NTTF and LB. I have a question though. He growls at my 11 year old son when he gets home from school, he also growls at him when he goes to pick him up. He only does this with my boy, has never gone for him or done anything other than a growl, no teeth showing. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 CuppramanRR, Can you give a few more details? When did this start, How old is Areo, Does your son do any thing with the dog ex feeding, training, walking etc. With what you have given me I would say you are facing a pecking order problem with the dog thinking he is above your son. If this is the case there are a couple of ways to approach it. Try to give as much info as possible please. Hopefully MadSpringer will jump in here as well as the is not much he does not know concerning the breed. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted December 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 I guess it started about 1-2 months ago now. I was acutually thinking the same as you, is a dominance thing, Aero always tries to hold his head higher then my sons as well. Something that may or may not be worth mentioning is that he has sarted to growl when my lab sniffs his rear end. Jordan does not do anything with Aero, no feeding or training or walking, he is sometimes a bit boisterous with Aero, like he is with the Lab, where the Lab just takes it and play fights back, Aero takes it a tad more seriously. Aero is just coming up to 2 years old this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Lee, My Cocker Sweep use to do the same to my eldest son until I told him to stop petting the dog and completely ignore him. The growling has stopped and he decides when to spoil the dog not the other way around. Worked for us but that was by chance and I would await NTTF's directions. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polski Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Is it possible your son your son has inadvertently hurt the dog when play fighting or picking him up?.The growling could be down to a number of things, fear aggression, dominance or something else. I would recommend that all play fighting be stopped before things get out of hand and someone ends up being badly bitten. Hope this helps, Rick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted December 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Is it possible your son your son has inadvertently hurt the dog when play fighting or picking him up?.The growling could be down to a number of things, fear aggression, dominance or something else. I would recommend that all play fighting be stopped before things get out of hand and someone ends up being badly bitten. Hope this helps, Rick. As a precaution i will let the boy know not to bite the dog No seriously, I will tell no more play fighting with the spaniel. He should concentrate on the Lab who generally beats my son up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Is it possible your son your son has inadvertently hurt the dog when play fighting or picking him up?.The growling could be down to a number of things, fear aggression, dominance or something else. I would recommend that all play fighting be stopped before things get out of hand and someone ends up being badly bitten. Hope this helps, Rick. I would agree to stop all play fighting and rough housing. I would also start to have your son feed Areo, have him make Areo sit and wait for his dinner and he release him with an "ok" command. Make sure you are presant so that you can help him if the dog breaks.You may even want to have a leash on him the first few times so your son can pull him back without getting close to the food. This will help exsert dominance over the dog and show him a differant order in the pecking line. To the same end let your son do a few retrieves with him aswell. In this case they need to be formal retrieves with Areo sitting beside him and then released on command. Again you may want to run a lead looped under his head around the front of his throat to give him some control if Areo trys to break....(there is a thread on how to run this exercise I believe it is called line control...I will try to find it for you after the boys are off to school) We can see where he is at after a couple of weeks of this and then I think we may add another exercise that is designed explisidly(sp) for dominance control, if you want to continue. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuck1 Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 The dog always having his head above your boy's is an interesting one, and would tend to point me towards a dominance issue, (which I know has been already mentioned) Can you explain to your lad a few things about how a dog perceives pecking order, and give him a few little tasks to do to reinforce the point? I would suggest getting him to regularly sit in the dogs bed (sounds daft I know), explain to him that the dog should never be above him looking down ie your son on the floor, the dog on the sofa. Never allow the dog to jump up and put his paws on his shoulders. Get your sone to take over feeding him, and ensure the dog sits before your son tells him he can eat. Let your son do some leadwork, particularly walking to heel, and ensure that every time they encounter a gate, stile or doorway that your son goes through first. I hope this is helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Cupraman, Here is the link. It is one of the pinned topics. The same exercise can be ran just looping the line under the dogs head around his neck. If the pics are not working let me know and I will repost them. NTTF http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...showtopic=37571 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuck1 Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 I was writing my reply as NTTF was doing his, now it just looks like I've copied! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted December 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Thanks guys. Thanks NTTF, no pictures but no worries, I get the idea. Will start tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Lee, My Cocker Sweep use to do the same to my eldest son until I told him to stop petting the dog and completely ignore him. The growling has stopped and he decides when to spoil the dog not the other way around. Worked for us but that was by chance and I would await NTTF's directions. LB There seems to be a general consensus that it is a dominance issue; I have been doing a fair bit of reading about dog behaviour and training recently before undertaking to train my first gundog (although pets have been in the house for years) so don't profess to know much and there will be others on here far more knowledgable, however, with this stuff fresh in my mind I would try the following and see how you get on, it can't hurt. By your son totally ignoring the dog and only displaying affection when your son wants and not when the dog demands it is representative of the behaviour of a senior pack member. Does the dog jump up to welcome you son - if so the dog should be ignored completely, walked away from, until he has calmed down and then welcomed by your son on your son's terms. The comment about your son feeding the dog is also very relevant, let the dog see the food is being prepared by your son - possibly get your son to prepare the food at high level so the dog can't see in the bowl and then get your son to eat something from the worktop looking as if it's coming from the dog's bowl (senior pack members always eat first) - then allow the dog to take his food on your son's command. If your son walks Aero and he pulls on the lead, get your son to stop and stand still when the dog pulls, emphasising to the dog that he will move when your son decides, not the dog. Obviously all this should be done under your supervision but I don't suppose I need to tell you that! Would also agree that all play fighting with both dogs should stop, certainly until this is ironed out. Even by playing with the lab your son could be sending mixed signals to Aero. Good luck, let us know how you get on. WD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted December 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Lee, My Cocker Sweep use to do the same to my eldest son until I told him to stop petting the dog and completely ignore him. The growling has stopped and he decides when to spoil the dog not the other way around. Worked for us but that was by chance and I would await NTTF's directions. LB There seems to be a general consensus that it is a dominance issue; I have been doing a fair bit of reading about dog behaviour and training recently before undertaking to train my first gundog (although pets have been in the house for years) so don't profess to know much and there will be others on here far more knowledgable, however, with this stuff fresh in my mind I would try the following and see how you get on, it can't hurt. By your son totally ignoring the dog and only displaying affection when your son wants and not when the dog demands it is representative of the behaviour of a senior pack member. Does the dog jump up to welcome you son - if so the dog should be ignored completely, walked away from, until he has calmed down and then welcomed by your son on your son's terms. The comment about your son feeding the dog is also very relevant, let the dog see the food is being prepared by your son - possibly get your son to prepare the food at high level so the dog can't see in the bowl and then get your son to eat something from the worktop looking as if it's coming from the dog's bowl (senior pack members always eat first) - then allow the dog to take his food on your son's command. If your son walks Aero and he pulls on the lead, get your son to stop and stand still when the dog pulls, emphasising to the dog that he will move when your son decides, not the dog. Obviously all this should be done under your supervision but I don't suppose I need to tell you that! Would also agree that all play fighting with both dogs should stop, certainly until this is ironed out. Even by playing with the lab your son could be sending mixed signals to Aero. Good luck, let us know how you get on. WD Thanks WD, some great advice there. Nice one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted December 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Thanks guys. Seems to be working a treat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusk2dawn Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 I was writing my reply as NTTF was doing his, now it just looks like I've copied! Tuck. I dont for a moment think that anyone would say you copied NTTF,s post, all you have done is reinforced the general opinion,and that can only be a good thing. This is one of the things I enjoy about the forum there are so many minds, together with personal experiences to draw upon. Priceless, you couldnt buy it. D2D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted January 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 No growling now for a week. However, when he has a bone noone can go near him apart from me, showing of teeth. In fact first time I did it he went bonkers until I got him by the scruff and forceably took it off him. he is now fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 No growling now for a week. However, when he has a bone noone can go near him apart from me, showing of teeth. In fact first time I did it he went bonkers until I got him by the scruff and forceably took it off him. he is now fine with me. We had a pet lab when I was young, as a toddler I could do ANYTHING to her and I am advised I "played" with her relentlessly, she didn't bother and she was never aggressive towards other dogs but give her a bone and no-one could go near her. Maybe best just to cut the bones out altogether until you're sure any aggression towards your son has been overcome. Great to hear things seem to be going to the right direction. WD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted January 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Well we kind of took a little step back. He has started growling at the boy again and gave him a little nip today, although me thinks it was meant for the Lab. Something I have noticed is that Aero does not leave me alone. he is like a shadow. So much more so than my Lab ever was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Cupraman, What have you changed in the last few days/week? Have you left off any exercises, changed routines, etc. what led up to this incident? NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted January 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) I beleive the nipping incident went as follows: The old Lab has his own bed which he loves, but Aero being Aero likes to get in it occasioanly, so the Lab (Jack) wondered up to the bed and gave Aero a nudge. Aero growled at Jack and my son told Aero off and tapped him on the nose, he then nipped him. I was not at home but my wife said the 3 of them were very close together, and that Aero could have thought it was Jack. Not really changed anything else. I have found like i said though that Aero is very protective of me. He is still anxious at home, he wets himself still from time to time when told off, or when he gets a little stressed. Just turned 2 now. Whilst I think about it, and this may not have anything to do with this matter but I thought I would include it. If I give Aero a non toy bone or peice of cow hide to clean his teeth, noone can get within 6 feet og him without the teeth showing apart from me. Edited January 9, 2008 by CupramanRR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Do you have areo crate trained? NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyRS6 Posted January 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) He was in a crate NTTF but because of his anxiety we took him out of it after 3 months, that and because the wife wanted her dining room back although he is a different dog in the feild, indoors he is very anxious sometimes, has been since day one. Tony Price (who we got him from) said he would grow out of it, and to be fair to him advised us that he was a bit timid. I was actually thinking of getting him back over to tony for a couple of weekends for some one on one training. Again work is getting in the way. Edited January 9, 2008 by CupramanRR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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