Guns and Public Transport

[bob300w]

Not exactly true Sam, paragraph 17.8, Section 19 states;

section 19 makes it an offence to have in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on the accused) a loaded air weapon or a loaded shotgun, or any other firearm, whether loaded or not, together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm. Care should be taken to ensure that those who may have lawful authority or reasonable excuse to carry firearms in a public place are notunnecassarily inconvenienced.

Ergo; it is an offence to have a weapon in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. Your certificate is the lawful authority, you therefore do not (in theory) need the reasonable excuse as the wording is or.

Carrying a gun uncovered in a public place would probably come under the offensive weapons in a public place laws.

 

 

Indeed, check the sentance 'loaded shotgun'.

 

Harv - I think you will find that we a little further north than that........

Sam, check the sentence "or any other firearm, whether loaded or not".

Also check the definition of a public place, i.e. paragraph 17.10; the definition of a public place in section 57((4) is the same as that in section 1(4) of the prevention of crime act 1953, i.e. it includes "any highway and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise".

Sounds like it includes a bus or train to me, course you could always put it to the test and prove me wrong.

Edited March 6, 2008 by bob300w

[MM]

right, under no cercumstances must you do this. National Rail Conditions of Carriage page 25.

i wont bore you with the info, but its a deffo NO!

[MM]

but, direct from BTP, news just in.

 

Late reply for you

 

Reply from b.t.p. at green lane

 

 

 

As long as the weapon is locked and safe

 

And covered

 

And person is carrying an in date licence

 

 

so i guess they know tha law.

[Hunter]

National Rail prohibits the carriage of loaded and unloaded firearms on its service as per page 25, Document PDF NRCOC, However there is the added note of:

 

May be subject to

individual Train

Company

dispensation

 

Which obvviously applies only to unloaded firearms. So its safe to say that untill you have checked with your rail service if they accept unloaded firearm carriage on their service, its a no go. Anyone who does so is violating the service carriage conditions and the BTP (British transport police) may well get involved. By firearms this most likely includes S1 and S2 firearms, and airguns.

 

 

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galle.../misc/NRCOC.pdf

 

 

I would also like to add that any firearm including airguns that is found to have rounds in the breach or magazine, whilst in a public place, will likely place you in jail for a number of years. So make sure your magazine is empty, and removed clearly, from the gun. Store ammunition, bolt (if it has a removable bolt) and magazine, seperate from the gun, and always always use a good secure case to ensure you appear responsible for the firearm you are transporting.

 

Remember that people have been stabbed/beaten just for the sake of a mobile phone. You need to be discreate with firearms in the public.. I leave the reason to your imagination

 

Unfortunatly shooting sports have come to this stae where we have to be very cautious about how we are seen with firearms, the media will jump on any story they can, and pull our sport appart as best they can with the help of the uneducated public. Dont let this get you down, just watch your step, and enjoy what you do.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Hunter

[caspertguk]

I regualy walk to my permission with my shotgun in its slip (5 minute walk) and have been stopped once, Explained nicely to the officer that i was carrying an unloaded shotgun on the way to go shooting and he had no problem, even puts his hand up to me now when he passes. Between some fields i have to cross a back road and for this i always unload the gun and leave it broken as i cross then re-load once in the next field and have not had any problems. Best advice is to keep it in a gunslip as much as is practicly possible and especially when on public transport, as to carrying it on the bus, well why not? as long as it's covered and out of sight.

[HEAD SHOT]

Good question mate. I asked this one to a Policeman when he came around to check my cabinet. A common sence approach is all that is needed. As long as the gun is discreetly covered up, its legal. I went to pick a gun up in Newcastle and carried it broken down in a sports kit bag. Then went onto public transport. No one would have ever known.

[Landy]

I have carried various firearms, shotguns and air rifles for 20 years or so in public places for the purpose of vermin shooting, to and from the firearms dealer, between farms and never had a problem.

 

The answer is how you carry it. Be inconspicuous, discreet and nothing to alarm the public. Offices on the beat may approach I have on one occasion to see what I was doing but was gutting rabbits at the time, needless to say he didn’t stay long.

 

The point is you do have a right to transport tools of the trade in public places but not to give any cause of alarm or complains to be made. The law should/will check you are adhering to legislation as is their duty to protect the public.

[WGD]

Might be better to carry it broken down so it doesn't look like a gun and put in a hard case, you could then put a black bag round it and no one would know what it was.

 

Regardless of the finer points of the law this is the best advice here, most punters don't know what's likely to be in a hard gun case but they'll have a pretty good idea of what's in a gun slip.

 

WGD

[bob300w]

I have carried various firearms, shotguns and air rifles for 20 years or so in public places for the purpose of vermin shooting, to and from the firearms dealer, between farms and never had a problem.

 

The answer is how you carry it. Be inconspicuous, discreet and nothing to alarm the public. Offices on the beat may approach I have on one occasion to see what I was doing but was gutting rabbits at the time, needless to say he didn’t stay long.

 

The point is you do have a right to transport tools of the trade in public places but not to give any cause of alarm or complains to be made. The law should/will check you are adhering to legislation as is their duty to protect the public.

Yep, this post says it all, common sense also says that if it is an offence to carry a knife in public places, it obviously applies to an an uncovered gun.

Quote from Sir Alfred Nobel; "The trouble with common sense, is that it is not very common".