Short range shooting

[amateur]

I am a newbie at pigeon shooting. I used to have a .177 BSA when I was a teenager and did all the usual (probably illegal) teenager stunts.

My wife and I have a bird-table in our (small) suburban garden and I got fed up with pigeons and squirrels hogging everything and frightening off the small birds that the peanuts and fat-balls had attacted.

So in my late 50's I considered shooting again and went to my local gun shop where I was advised that a Crosman 2410 .22 gas pistol would sort them out.

A nice pistol - certainly accurate at the 10-20 yard range, but, despite feathers flying, so I know that I am hitting them, I have not scored a knock-down with either pigeon or squirrel.

Suspecting that this might be power problem, I went on-line and found a new SMK XS78 .22 gas rifle and scope.

This certainly punches holes through tin-cans and knocks out lumps from my target back-board and I can regularly group within 1/2 inch at 20 yards (so I should do at that range no doubt you experienced guys would say). However, what I am finding is that I cannot hit a pigeon for toffee with it, and I am having to resight the scope every time that I use the gun. Is this usual? The amount of variation on the target can be 2-3 inches day to day (certainly enough for me to miss a head shot), although the grouping is consistent, and when I adjust the sights, I can pull it back to on-target consistency.

The problem is that, if I have to keep resighting the gun, the pigeons stay away, and if I don't I keep missing.

I suppose that I have achieved the objective of keeping the bird-table pigeon and squirrel-free, but I would like to get a kill!

[happyshooter]

Hi Amateur, pls don,t live up to your forum aka ,YOU DO NOT USE AIR PISTOLS FOR KILLING PIGEONS& TREE RATS, you should only use air rifles and get a good shot so you can hit a 20/25mm target at 25/30 yds before you think of shooting live animals, at the range your shooting at any bsa/webly/ gamo./ norica/ cometa springers will do the job .177 and head shots. so pls do not shoot animals with a pistol use a legal powered airgun,

rehds brian

[vole]

Squirrels are tough beggars.I mostly use shotguns and only use air on them when very close up.I admit I dont have alot of confidence in my own abilities with a sub 12lb air gun. Why not get a .410?

[Ice]

 

I agree air rifles are not ideal for killing live quarry in the hands of someone who hasnt shot for years, especially if it needs sighting everytime you get it out. A .410 shotgun would be ideal but can be unuseable in close proximity to other residents, thats if you intend to stay on the right side of the law.

 

A pistol is not really effective unless shooting at really short distances, i use mine for dispatching only and wouldnt attempt a shot to kill no matter what range. Sure they will kill with a lucky shot but there is too high risk of injured pest running / flying away and dying miserably and painfully somewhere else.

 

If you dont have a shotgun cert, you may wish to apply however this can be a lengthly process, my advice would be to try tightening the screws on the mounts for you scope, you may find they dont connect properly / hense why you are having to zero all the time, scope can be tempremental, try to be careful with the gun / scope ensuring not to bang on anything as this can cause it to loose the zero...

[WeihrauchPower]

A gun shop that recommends an air pistol?

[amateur]

As I explained in my original posting, I am a recent returnee to air guns after a 40 year break, so my knowledge of currently available guns and their capabilities was limited.

Yes, the original advice that I had from my local gun-shop was that the Crosman pistol would do the job - not true in practice, which is why I bought the XS78.

I am shooting in my back garden, not overlooked and surrounded by a 6 foot double close-boarded fence, at relatively short range so I can confidently group within 1/2 inch using the XS78 at the full length of the garden - but the problem that I had was that the sights kept shifting. I have now tightened up the sight mounts - thanks for the practical advice Ice - and am perhaps more careful how I handle the rifle to avoid knocking anything.

I am sure that a .410 would do the job more effectively, but that is not an option when shooting in suburbia where the neighbours would not appreciate it and wouldn't I need to get a licence etc etc?

The object of the exercise was to keep the pigeons and squirrels off the bird-table and so far only the pigeons keep returning.

But I've not seen one today!

[Scarpa]

I'd say that a sub 12ftlbs air rifle was the ideal tool for the use described. I've shot huge numbers of squirrel over the years, but head shots are a must. Practice until you can get 10 shots into a 10p sized group at the range you are shooting at.

[airssassin]

Forgive me if you already know this, but for clean pigeons and squirrel kills, you have to hit them in very particular places...

 

Squirrel - headshot from side on, below the ear (preferably below and behind ear) or into the neck. From the back, into the head or upper neck. Don't try shooting them from the front and don't try body shots as they will just injure it and send it over your lovely high fence like a rocket to suffer back in it's drey.

 

Wood pigeon - headshots are best. Alternatively upper neck shot from front, side or back. From below (probably not possible in your situation) under the wing onto the side of the body. From above, shoot between the shoulder blades and neck. Anywhere else will be a wasted pellet and a nasty injury and painful experience for the bird.

 

Have a second pellet ready to go and don't rely on that fence as a backstop.

 

I hope this helps... now go get those squirrels!

[amateur]

BINGO!

I looked out of the bedroom window at 7.00 this morning to see a woodpigeon on the bird-table.

My wife was in the shower, so no interference from there.

I quietly opened the window, took a very careful aim at the head - conveniently extended as it scoffed the birdseed and BLAM, dropped like a stone, one very dead pigeon.

By the time my wife was out of the shower the gun and carcase were out of the way - my son-in-law says that he wants to cook all my results, squirrels as well!

Anyway, I am now feeling a bit like Jude Law in "Enemy at the Gate", picking off the feldgrau interlopers.

Let's hope that a squirrel comes up next.

 

Thanks for the advice Airassassin - I had worked out that all I was doing with the pistol was hitting, but not killing them because it was not accurate enough for a head shot, nor powerful enough to kill with a bodyshot.

The XS 78 and scope is another matter though - it worked

 

ps I have tested out the fence - it is double thickness and the pellets only halfway penetrate the first layer. For target practice I use the shed as a backstop - so the pellet would have to go through 2 walls of the shed and both thicknesses of the fence to escape my land.

[Ice]

Excelent result pal, you seem very pleased too

 

I had some woodies last night and made a burger from them, 2 breasts wont be enough though, unless you want small burgers

 

I didnt have a mincing machine so i blended them in a blender very slowly for about 10 secs, chopped an onion and 2 cloves garlic and blend these too but very fast for about 5 secs....

 

Add the lot together in a blender, crack an egg in too, one final blend and voila...... tip out make a burger shape and cook to you hearts concent

 

Not a chef by any means so i cant give you accurate ammounts, just do like i do and throw anything that takes your fancy in

 

Only trouble is, if it taste's bloody delicious and everyone love's it, you cant cook it again as you dont know whats in it

 

Glad of your result anyway.

 

Well done

[amateur]

Thanks for the encouragement and the recipe, Ice.

[airssassin]

Nice one!!

 

 

 

BINGO!

I looked out of the bedroom window at 7.00 this morning to see a woodpigeon on the bird-table.

My wife was in the shower, so no interference from there.

I quietly opened the window, took a very careful aim at the head - conveniently extended as it scoffed the birdseed and BLAM, dropped like a stone, one very dead pigeon.

By the time my wife was out of the shower the gun and carcase were out of the way - my son-in-law says that he wants to cook all my results, squirrels as well!

Anyway, I am now feeling a bit like Jude Law in "Enemy at the Gate", picking off the feldgrau interlopers.

Let's hope that a squirrel comes up next.

 

Thanks for the advice Airassassin - I had worked out that all I was doing with the pistol was hitting, but not killing them because it was not accurate enough for a head shot, nor powerful enough to kill with a bodyshot.

The XS 78 and scope is another matter though - it worked

 

ps I have tested out the fence - it is double thickness and the pellets only halfway penetrate the first layer. For target practice I use the shed as a backstop - so the pellet would have to go through 2 walls of the shed and both thicknesses of the fence to escape my land.

[Evilv]

A couple of things Amateur:

 

Mind out when shooting at a wooden backstop. Sometimes pellets can rebound pretty hard right back at you. I was once hit on the head by one such. Surprised me MUCH. Better hang up some thick old carpet to absorb bouncers. It will make your practice quieter too.

 

Also, if the gun is having to be resighted all the time, are you sure the scope is firmly fastened to the gun? This may sound a naive and foolish question, but I've used quite cheap scopes on my old TX200 springer that stayed in zero for months of use. Check out the mounts are firmly tight, but don't over do it and strip the bolts as they are pretty small.

 

If all else fails on the scope zero problem, you could use open sights at that kind of range anyway. If the scope is firmly mounted on a gas rifle and it loses zero without being dropped or knocked, it is faulty. Take it back.

 

You were VERY badly advised at that gun shop by the way. They wasted your money for sure on the pistol. You went in with a problem and they sold you something entirely unsuitable. Sounds like they also may have supplied a rubbish scope. I wouldn't go there again if it were me, once you have sorted out this problem and seen them about the supply of inappropriate guns for pest control I would keep out of there. They don't deserve your business.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

This post has been edited and reference to recoil was removed when I re-read the original post and realised that it was a co2 rifle.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Evilv

[amateur]

Thanks for the tips Evilv

 

I didn't buy the XS78 from the first (local) gun-shop - they did not have a CO2 rifle in stock, and I would have traded in the Crosman against it if they had.

I sourced the best deal for the XS78 and scope on line and, even taking into account petrol costs, the saving was worth it.

As for using my local shop again - well I can buy ammo and CO2 on-line at good prices

 

I have tightened up the scope fixings and am now reliably getting 1/2" groupings over the length of the garden, and indeed my first pigeon yesterday.

 

I still like the Crosman as a target pistol - I might try it against rats if I ever see any (and if it doesn't work against them have the dealer/Crosman under the Sales Description Act as the pistol is described as a "Ratbuster"!!!)

[Evilv]

Thanks for the tips Evilv

 

I didn't buy the XS78 from the first (local) gun-shop - they did not have a CO2 rifle in stock, and I would have traded in the Crosman against it if they had.

I sourced the best deal for the XS78 and scope on line and, even taking into account petrol costs, the saving was worth it.

As for using my local shop again - well I can buy ammo and CO2 on-line at good prices

 

I have tightened up the scope fixings and am now reliably getting 1/2" groupings over the length of the garden, and indeed my first pigeon yesterday.

 

I still like the Crosman as a target pistol - I might try it against rats if I ever see any (and if it doesn't work against them have the dealer/Crosman under the Sales Description Act as the pistol is described as a "Ratbuster"!!!)

 

Ah - so you've solved the scope issue. That's good then.

 

Rats are quite tough, and I doubt that you'll 'bust' many with a legal air pistol. They have to be less than 6ft pounds of force and I wouldn't think that was enough to kill any rat I've dealt with. I would take the gun back unless you want it for plinking and are happy with that.

 

Good on your pigeon. I think you'll do just fine with that gun now at the ranges you are interested in.

[paul65]

I've killed 3 or 4 rats in my garden with a Crosman 2240 pistol. It is powerful and accurate enough at the 7 or 8 yard range at which I've shot them.

[amateur]

2 more pigeons off the bird-table today - both clean head shots.

Only problem now is that they are rather nervous and I don't get as many opportunities as I did initially.

I suppose that the word must go round the pigeon community!

I haven't seen a squirrel for a week

 

:blink:

[Biffo1262]

Amateur

 

I have shot an XS78 for quite a while and I zero mine at 30 yds. However, your zero on a cool day is not the same as on a warm day as CO2 pressure is subject to fluctuation with the temperature. It isn't possible to fit a pressure gauge on the standard gun without modifying the CO2 reservoir cap but it can be done by drilling the block for a CO2 throughway and drilling and tapping for the gauge where the current cross-head screw is. My pressure gauge is on my MaxZbulk adapter so I just relaced the cap with the adapter. The gauge is a pretty fair indicator of the guns performance and with experience you learn to allow for CO2 pressure much the same as you would allow for windage and distance. Similarly if you have an SMK scope I have found that the POI can alter with extreme of temp especially extreme heat. XS78 tends to a little low on power out of the box and I wouldn't be surprised if your gun shoots as low as 7ft/lbs. The nearer you can get it to the 10.5ft/lbs mark the more consistent it will be. The outfit you have is fit for purpose within those limitations and I have to admit I do have an inordinate amount of fun shooting mine but I do tend to right-off the first couple of shots of a session, and mine shoots at 11.3ft/lbs plus, until I know just how the gun is reacting to the days climate. It all comes good the more you shoot it.

 

Steve

Edited August 13, 2008 by Biffo1262

[amateur]

Thanks for that Steve.

 

I guess that at the range I am shooting at - 10-20 yds the temperature effect should not matter too much, but I have noticed that as I reach the end of the gas cartridges the power drops considerably for the last five or so shots.

How do you tune the gun up to 11.9lbs?

Or is it a trip to a specialist gunsmith?

 

Anyway last evening I added another woodpigeon to the total (3 in the day!)

 

I read your posting on the Rowan multishot - now that does look interesting

[amateur]

You CAN kill a squirrel cleanly with a Crosman 2240.

 

I had sent my XS78 to Ian Lamb for tuning and had been target practising with the Crosman and getting consistent 1" groupings at 10 yards.

 

As I was working with the patio doors open, the first squirrel that I had seen in weeks decided to raid the bird table peanuts - about 8 yards from my chair. A single JSB Predator between the eye and the ear felled him twitching, and a second Bisley hollowpoint at point-blank range stopped the twitching.

[amateur]

Blimey, this Crosman 2240 is good - just head-jobbed a woodpigeon off the bird-table.

 

I had fitted a new Hawke 3.9x40 to the XS78 and so I reused the old SMK 4x32 on the Crosman, which when zero'd in at 10 yards has given me the accuracy I need for short-range.

 

I can sit working at my computer and just zap the pigeons & squirrels through the open patio doors.

 

So that's 8 pigeons and I squirrel so far since I started in July

Edited September 18, 2008 by amateur

[airssassin]

Squirrels are different to rabbits - the best place to shoot a squirrel for a clean kill is towards the back of the head or into the neck. From the side, aim for a shot behind the ear or into the centre of the neck. From the back, into the top of neck or into back of head (best shot). I don't shoot them from the front as you are less likely to get an instant kill. For a coup de gras... if necessary, back of the head is the way forward.. just watch out if you get too close as a wounded squirrel is not something you want up your trouser leg!

Edited September 19, 2008 by airssassin

[amateur]

Thanks - I'll adjust my aim