Chard Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Seeing as the subject has got round to encouraging new blood into registered competition shooting, it's worth mentioning what really happens with average shooters, and why birds-only should be allowed and encouraged. Most middling club shooters, in my opinion, would dismiss registered shoots for the usual reasons (same old names in the prizes, sandbagging in the lower classes , lack of confidence that they're good enough etc etc etc). The reality is, that after they've had a few birds-only bashes at the birds-only reduced rate, they start to see the way it works, that they could stand a chance of getting into the prizes, so it's worth going for it. I'm sure many registered shots started like this, though many of them conveniently forget. It's a confidence thing really. Whatever the CPSA and the elite say about how welcome new shooters are made, it is my belief that that is cobblers. Clubs often make new members very welcome, but it's a very different matter at registered shoots with all the big boys looking down their noses. New competition shooters actually need a little arrogance to enter comps. I've got plenty of that but many don't. I've heard many club shooters making all sorts of soft excuses about why they're not going to enter a competition. I see birds-only as a "way in" for new blood. A gentle introduction to registered competition. I maintain that birds-only should be just that, I agree that prizes, including high gun and any qualification possibilities must only be open to fully paid-up registered entrants, but I fail to see any sound reason why birds only should be stopped. I dont have any problem at all with a £2-3 levy. As I've said before, I can see that a registered shoot takes time and money to put on, more so than a round of club targets, so a small levy for birds-only shooters is appropriate, a contribution towards the cost of paying refs and the extra time and effort that has gone into the organisation, trap-setting etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Potter Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Chard, Regarding paying the extra £2 to £3 for non CPSA shooters. If I've understood it correctly this levy goes to the CPSA not to the club/ground that is putting on the shoot and paying the refs etc. So the ground goes to all that time filling in the paperwork (if the day ticket includes insurance the very least they will need is address & certificate no.) which causes queues and moaning and at the end has to collate all the paperwork, write out a cheque and post the lot off to Bisley! It doesn't cost the ground owner any extra to accommodate a non CPSA member or a CPSA member as a Birds Only shooter so why should the CPSA gain for doing nothing? I agree with all that has been said previously about the raison d'etre for the CPSA, I must admit I'm not that convinced about their effectiveness, but the funding should come from those competition shooters who want either to represent their county and/or country or just measure themselves against other via. the classification system. I agree with you Chard that allowing them to shoot should eventually increase the CPSA numbers as novices try themselves at registered shoots and think "I would have won C class if I'd been in the CPSA" For myself, as stated earlier, I am a CPSA member, I nearly always shoot competition (optimism) but over the years I'd have saved a small fortune by going birds only. Mr Potter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Chard, Regarding paying the extra £2 to £3 for non CPSA shooters. If I've understood it correctly this levy goes to the CPSA not to the club/ground that is putting on the shoot and paying the refs etc. So the ground goes to all that time filling in the paperwork (if the day ticket includes insurance the very least they will need is address & certificate no.) which causes queues and moaning and at the end has to collate all the paperwork, write out a cheque and post the lot off to Bisley! It doesn't cost the ground owner any extra to accommodate a non CPSA member or a CPSA member as a Birds Only shooter so why should the CPSA gain for doing nothing? I agree with all that has been said previously about the raison d'etre for the CPSA, I must admit I'm not that convinced about their effectiveness, but the funding should come from those competition shooters who want either to represent their county and/or country or just measure themselves against other via. the classification system. I agree with you Chard that allowing them to shoot should eventually increase the CPSA numbers as novices try themselves at registered shoots and think "I would have won C class if I'd been in the CPSA" For myself, as stated earlier, I am a CPSA member, I nearly always shoot competition (optimism) but over the years I'd have saved a small fortune by going birds only. Mr Potter Cheers Mr Potter. I get it now that it's been explained in my native tongue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted January 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 While the CPSA could change the Day Ticket to have no charge, the price of entry is set by the ground, and its unlikely a ground will want to charge less for the same service. If a ground wants to have lower costs, and therefore lower entry fees, they will usually offer self scoring practice rounds on another layout or on non-reg shoot days. This is already common practice. On a self scoring claymate course, the only staff needed are trap jockeys to fill and maintain them, while on a 14 stand 100 target registered there will be 14 staff on the stands plus relief, plus safety officer, etc. The costs of running the two different kinds of shoot are appreciable, and reflected in the entry prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Potter Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 While the CPSA could change the Day Ticket to have no charge, the price of entry is set by the ground, and its unlikely a ground will want to charge less for the same service. If a ground wants to have lower costs, and therefore lower entry fees, they will usually offer self scoring practice rounds on another layout or on non-reg shoot days. This is already common practice. On a self scoring claymate course, the only staff needed are trap jockeys to fill and maintain them, while on a 14 stand 100 target registered there will be 14 staff on the stands plus relief, plus safety officer, etc. The costs of running the two different kinds of shoot are appreciable, and reflected in the entry prices. I wasn't suggesting non CPSA members pay any less, i.e. they can only go birds only and they pay the same price as CPSA members. I do know of one ground, up here in t'northwest that had 3 entry fees, their 100 bird competition shoot (non registered)was informally squadded, you turned up, booked on and when there was a few of you off you went with a referee/marker. You could enter either 1) Competition 2) Birds Only 3) Practice With 1 and 2 you went out in a squad with a ref, with 3, practice you went out independently and pushed your own buttons. This didn't last long, mainly because at that particular ground very few wanted to shoot the comp, firstly the birds only was dropped and more recently I have heard they are stopping the comps altogether. As I said in an earlier post any shooter should have to provide proof they are adequately insured which leads me onto another subject - We, I hope, all prove we are insured, by CPSA, BASC etc membership, but we don't or can't prove we are safe. Anyone can walk up to the desk at most shoots, put their money on the counter and in some cases buy cartridges, without showing a certificate (I know they should!), ID or anything. But lets assume all is legal, the stranger is certificated, is asked for and produces his ticket when buying his shells and then goes to the first stand, breaks every safety rule in the book and blows the leg off the innocent on stand 2! Surely an argument for some sort of compulsory safety certificate. I mean just a safety certificate not a certificate of competence, you don't need to be able to hit the target, be able to strip and clean a semi auto or know the difference between a sear and a tumbler to be safe. My other observation is that it's not just beginners who can be un-safe, I've seen plenty of obvious old hands, usually game & rough shooters, who give the impression that any second now a loaded gun might be pointing at you. A couple of hours of everyones time, the cost of a few boxes of cartridges and hopefully that all too rare incident (I don't like the word accident because they never are) could be even rarer. Sorry if this should be a new thread but I was on a role with the typing! Mr Potter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted January 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 What you suggest is already in practice at many grounds. While the CPSA have a price on a Day Ticket, some grounds absorb it, ie no extra £, others don't operate it and simply allow non-cpsa to shoot anyway. What the poll and the threads suggest, is that the CPSA solution to allow non-members to shoot along side CPSA members at registered shoots ( day tickets) , is not liked by many ground owners (who ignore it), and shooters ( who don't like the charge if applied). Hopefully, opinion will filter through to decision makers and changes will follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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