Frenchieboy Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Just a quickie to say that I managed my first fox with my 22-250 last night! I have a "Mentoring Condition" on my FAC for my 22-250 so my mentor called yesterday afternoon to say that conditions were right for my final "lesson" and that we should go out at about 9.30. I picked him up at the arranged time and we went off to one of my permissions and had a word with the land owner to check on where livestock etc was. All was well so off we went in my 4X4 up to the top fields where I knew that foxes "frequented". Within 5 minutes of gettin the motor parked and starting "calling for a fox" a young vixen appeared in front of us at only about 60 yards. Well that was it, the bolt was quietly slid forward and after resting the bipod on the bonnet of the motor while my mentor held the lamp a shot rang out and my first fox lay dead as a doornail in front of us. I had my camera with me but have chosen not to post a picture as I hit it very hard straight between the eyes which took the back half of its head off. I don't think a photo with such graphic detail would be in very good taste! Even so, I was delighted with the shot and my mentor was quite impressed. However, my mentor did pull me up on a couple of things and said that as such he would not sigh a letter to say that I was OK to use the 22-250 unacompanied until we had been out again to see if I had taken notice of what he had "pulled me up about". The things that he mentioned were as follows (And common sence): 1. I had been "Crown Green Bowling" and was wearing a very light coloured shirt which showed up in the dark, I should have put my camo overhalls on before leaving the vehicle! (Fair comment) 2. I had put some rather strong "Insect Repellent" on for bowling and, as he put it, I smelled like I had beeb visiting a chinese brothel. If he could smell me at tem paces the foxes could smell me at half a mile! (Again Fair comment!) 3. My voice, even when whispering was far too loud, I needed to control it, and my enthusiasm! 4. I had taken a little more time getting on aim than he would have liked to have seen. I tried justifying this by saying that I wanted to make it an extremely accurate shot but he replied that maybe I should try explaining that one to the foxes in future and ask them to hang around for 15 seconds extra before dissappearing into the long grass or cover! 5. I had forgotten to remove my "Bluetooth" and it was giving a blue flask avery half a minute or so making me look like a beacon at a school crossing - he used slightly different words but I will not print them here! All of his points are very valid as he likes to see the job done right so now I have to wait till we go out again and I can show him that I have "taken on board" all that he has said and taught me! I accept that he is doing the right thing allowing me to make "mistakes" and then waiting to see if I have learned from them! Once agian, sorry about no photo, if it had been a "broadside chest shot" it would have neen fair enough but this young vixen's head was a real mess, even so, I am over the moon as my 22-250 has been well and truly "christened"! Edited for spelling mistakes - Oops! Edited August 7, 2009 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonk Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well done Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DustyIrl Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well done mate. Always great feeling to christen a new gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Thanks for that Guys, yes it's great to christen a new gun, especially with your first fox! (My 22-250 is not brand new, but new to me) I believe that my mentor is right in allowing me to make the mistakes and as long as I learn from them, as long as they are not "Safety Issues" in which case he would have pulled me up there and then in no uncertain terms. Like poeple say, there is nothing like hands on experience to teach you a lesson! I'm still "buzzing" now! Edited August 7, 2009 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 congratulations about the fox but what on earth is your mentor on about? those issues have nothing to do with your safe use of a gun so aren't relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cushat Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 congratulations about the fox but what on earth is your mentor on about? those issues have nothing to do with your safe use of a gun so aren't relevant. Totally agree - I was reading through the original post thinking the same thing!! They are things which will come with experience and in no way mean you aren't suitable to be in posession of a rifle!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 congratulations about the fox but what on earth is your mentor on about? those issues have nothing to do with your safe use of a gun so aren't relevant. I quite agree that these issues have no relevence to the safe use of a rifle. They do however hold a lot of importance between success and failure. I asked him not only to mentor me with my 22-250 but also to teach me as much as possible about the fieldcraft skills involved in hunting and shooting foxes. Therefore I agree with him saying that I need to show that I have taken on board all that he has taught me! The guy is just doing all that I asked him to do so please do not fault him for that guys. In my opinion (For what it is worth), these are faults that I should have know about and avoided, they are all part of the overall picture even though they are not directly connected with "gun safety". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miffy Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) 1. I had been "Crown Green Bowling" and was wearing a very light coloured shirt which showed up in the dark, I should have put my camo overhalls on before leaving the vehicle! (Fair comment)2. I had put some rather strong "Insect Repellent" on for bowling and, as he put it, I smelled like I had beeb visiting a chinese brothel. If he could smell me at tem paces the foxes could smell me at half a mile! (Again Fair comment!) 3. My voice, even when whispering was far too loud, I needed to control it, and my enthusiasm! 4. I had taken a little more time getting on aim than he would have liked to have seen. I tried justifying this by saying that I wanted to make it an extremely accurate shot but he replied that maybe I should try explaining that one to the foxes in future and ask them to hang around for 15 seconds extra before dissappearing into the long grass or cover! 5. I had forgotten to remove my "Bluetooth" and it was giving a blue flask avery half a minute or so making me look like a beacon at a school crossing - he used slightly different words but I will not print them here! 1. Wouldn't make any difference at all so an unfair comment 2. The fox would smell you anyway regardless so again unfair comment 3. Noises should be kept to a minimum but don't know how loud you were so can't say if he's being unfair. 4. He wants you to rush the shot........ should he be anybodys mentor??? 5. Again wouldn't really make a difference Are you sure he thinks that you are safe to use your rifle on your own, or would he think that your enthusiasm is making you an unsafe user of a firearm? Congratulations on the fox by the way and hopefully its the first of many Edited August 7, 2009 by miffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky-shot Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well done mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Sorry Miffy but I disagree with most of your comments, but there again we are all entitled to our opinions, it would be a sad world if we all thought the same and agreed on everything without "debating" things. I have known my mentor for many years and he is a good friend who, I am sure, has my best interests at heart. I thought carefully about his comments and I believe he is correct (Maybe not on the time I spent taking aim). You may think otherwise, and that is fair enough. I am certainly not going to fall out over other peoples thoughts and beliefs! And Yes, I firmly believe that I am perfectly safe to use a rifle! Just out of interest, the insect that repellent I use I blend myself using pure essential oils (Mainly Citronella and Lemon Grass) and even I have to admit that I made this a bit too strong it does have a strong and lingering aroma which could do with "taming down" a bit, but it certainly works! Edited August 7, 2009 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miffy Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 You disagree with me but not your mentor... The fox was called to within 60 yards, despite the smell of insect repellant, the light coloured shirt and the talking. Fair enough it was probably a young fox but don't be fooled into believeing that you need to wear camo or dark clothing in order to shoot foxes. The same goes for the insect repellent, a fox down wind will smell you anyway regardless of what smellies you have on. He was definately wrong to try and pressure you into taking a shot earlier than you are comfortable with but don't worry as your shooting will get quicker with experience. I did ask if he could think you were not safe to use the rifle and not wether YOU thought you were safe as anyone with a firearm/ shotgun thinks they are safe but unfortunately its not always the case. I'm not saying that you are unsafe or having a dig but his comments should not stop him from signing you off to say that you are safe on your own unless of course he thinks that you are not. Especially as you have already been out with him many times and this was meant to be your last mentored outing, would you agree with that? I use a 4x4 with a white roof, my lamping buddy is almost deaf so communication at anything less than normal talking voice isn't possible and the 4x4 makes more noise than you could believe......so how many foxes do you think i shoot in a year? Answers on a post card please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 In fairness I accept that you are much more experienced that me with regards to hunting and shooting foxes, and I have no idea how many you have accounted for, nor would I question that as it is no doubt a considerable number. I agree with you that a fox downwind would smell you straight away but I am sure that you would have to agree that as such you would not think of "drowning yourself in a strong after shave" just before going out to shoot. Surely the same applies to the extra strong smell of an insect repellent such as I was wearing. My mentor has never questioned nor has had the need to bring up any questions regarding any safety issues with me or my ability to handle firearms safely, that is not the reason that he did not sign me off last night. The reason he gave (Which I totally agree with) is that he just wanted to see that I had taken notice of the points that he raised in order for me to be more successful in my hunting and shooting of foxes. Lets be fair about things, no matter how much you think you know about any "situation in life" there is always something more to learn, and we are never too old to learn! As I stated, it would be a sad world if we all agreed all of the time but I do see and understand the points you raised just as I do with the points that my mentor raised, and I thank you for your interest and feedback. Thank you my friend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miffy Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 I agree with you that a fox downwind would smell you straight away but I am sure that you would have to agree that as such you would not think of "drowning yourself in a strong after shave" just before going out to shoot. Surely the same applies to the extra strong smell of an insect repellent such as I was wearing.My mentor has never questioned nor has had the need to bring up any questions regarding any safety issues with me or my ability to handle firearms safely, that is not the reason that he did not sign me off last night. The reason he gave (Which I totally agree with) is that he just wanted to see that I had taken notice of the points that he raised in order for me to be more successful in my hunting and shooting of foxes. Lets be fair about things, no matter how much you think you know about any "situation in life" there is always something more to learn, and we are never too old to learn! I have been out foxing after using deodorant/ aftershave and agreed it is not ideal, i don't recall it ever being an issue and nor did it make me want to shower or roll round in badger c**p before i went out. Surely the roll of your mentor is to make sure that you are safe to use the said firearm and if he thinks that you are safe then it's job done on his part and he should sign to say this. You will be learning for a long time so enjoy and good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 In fairness I accept that you are much more experienced that me with regards to hunting and shooting foxes, and I have no idea how many you have accounted for, nor would I question that as it is no doubt a considerable number. I agree with you that a fox downwind would smell you straight away but I am sure that you would have to agree that as such you would not think of "drowning yourself in a strong after shave" just before going out to shoot. Surely the same applies to the extra strong smell of an insect repellent such as I was wearing. My mentor has never questioned nor has had the need to bring up any questions regarding any safety issues with me or my ability to handle firearms safely, that is not the reason that he did not sign me off last night. The reason he gave (Which I totally agree with) is that he just wanted to see that I had taken notice of the points that he raised in order for me to be more successful in my hunting and shooting of foxes. Lets be fair about things, no matter how much you think you know about any "situation in life" there is always something more to learn, and we are never too old to learn! As I stated, it would be a sad world if we all agreed all of the time but I do see and understand the points you raised just as I do with the points that my mentor raised, and I thank you for your interest and feedback. Thank you my friend! Just having a quick read of this thread. I think the points raised are fair enough, from both sides here. One thing though, I think your mentor has missed the point of mentoring. For fox, it's got nothing to do with your shooting technique in terms of effective killing of foxes, just your shooting technique in view of safety. You could be mentored and never hit anything, but still be signed off because you're missing safely. One point where I do disagree with your mentor is on speed of shot. You take as long as you need to be sure and safe, end of. If the fox ******* off in the meantime, hey ho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Rather that having this thread drag out endlessly with different opinions (Most of which I agree with) please can I clarify a few points? Firstly I agree that "mentoring" as per the condition on my FAC only requires a confirmation that there is no question about my gun safety, which as I have stated is not in question as far as my mentor is concerned. With that in mind he has said that he would be more than willing to sign a statement confirming that there are no issues regarding firearm safety with me! However, I did say that I asked him to mentor me in fox shooting/hunting in general (Not just firearm safety) so that I could become more skilled and proficient. With this in mind, even though both my mentor and I agree with most of the comments on this thread I believe that he is right in saying that even though there is no question whatsoever about my firearm safety he would rather wait until I can show him that I have listened to and learned from ALL he has taught me. I also have to agree with the comments on taking my time to take a shot and that might well become quicker with experience, in my own honest opinion there is no excuse for rushing a shot and missing. I would ask you all to please respect that he is only doing exactly what I have asked him to do, (To mentor me in the skills of fox shooting in general rather than JUST firearm safety) Without sounding dissrespectful to any of you (I do value your feedback) I am happy with the situation in the knowledge that he just wants to see that I have listened to what he has taught me! Please do not put a man down for doing exactly what he has been asked to do! Just as a foot note: We expect to be going out later this week when I am fully recovered from this blas**d Swine Flu so that I can show that I have learned from the mistakes he pointed out and then I can finish with my "Mentoring Condition". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 (edited) well done frenchie!! dont beat yourself up about noise, repellant etc , its easily done. the important bit is if you were safe or not! and it sounds like your doing just fine. ive been shooting for nearly forty years but the occaisional thing still happens to make you feel like a doughnut. take friday night for instance, i went out with suusex lad foxing. ( see the review in sporting pictures) didnt get a fox but bagged his first sussex roe just on dusk. after the dusk stalk we set about lamping for charlie. ten minutes into it we came to a steep bank, about 6ft high. i slipped on the short dewey grass and ended up going **** over *** down the bank.!!" 18 stone of idiot, lamp, rifle, and game bag in a big heap with me winded. the rifle , a 6.5x55 had three round in the mag, ( bolt closed on an empty chamber ) took the brunt of the shock, the scope was 4ft to the left and a foot high before rezeroing. the point of this story is that we all make mistakes and some things just cant be avoided. the main thing to focus on is SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY. im sure you dont need telling that. in nearly forty years of shooting ive had one negligent discharge, again whilst hunting with sussex lad. you only get one chance at most whilst shooting, and that was my one and only piece of luck. neither of us were hurt and he still trusts me enough to come out with me. i only added this last bit to entice the very many armchair hunters to comment. !! we all make daft mistakes and anyone who tells you other wise is a down right liar ! as long as you continue to be safety conscious at all times then you will enjoy a great many foxes with your new rifle im sure. good luck , regards dan. Edited August 17, 2009 by BIGDAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Thanks for the words of encouragement Dan! I agree entirely with you - "You show me a man that says he has never made a mestake and I will show you a liar!" The crucial thing (In my opinion) is that you learn from your mistakes and try not to make the same mistake again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Well Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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