ferretsbadger Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Here's the dilema ladies and Gents... You have a standard proofed gun (not steel proofed), can someone expalin to me if there are non toxic loads other than steel that can be used in a standard proofed gun. Initialy i'm thinking that the answer will be no, but, I can recall reading somewhere in a book that mild steel can be used? Steel shot = NO Hevishot = NO Tungsten mix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 I was told by John at cheshire gun rooms that as long as you used the more open chokesthere would be on problem using steel with a plastic wadas the steel would stay in the wad cup until it left the gun But he was trying to sell me 500 rounds of steel shot loaded cartrages at the time. However it went through OK all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinter Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Bismuth should be ok ? (eley) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretsbadger Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Alexr, And you have used these steel plastic wads with no damage or dire consequences to the barrels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretsbadger Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Sprinter, Have you used the bismuth ones without any issues then?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Yes But only the five hundred rounds. I have never had the guts to try it again. John at cheshire gun rooms is the chap behind the McNab guns. I trust him, but still I feel happier with bismuth ( though not the cost ) also I was using an AYA over and under multichoke with two cylinder chokes. it is a fairly modern gun, but not specificaly proofed for steel shot as far as I know. The advice was general though, not specific to that Gun. I also wonder about the enviromental impact of the plastic wad. I wonder if it defeats the object of the excersice Edited August 7, 2009 by alexr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinxy72 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 bismuth , tin , itm and itx are all apperently ok for non-steel proofed guns. gamebore do tin ( labelled as Tin Shot Superspeed ) and itx ( labelled as TMX range ) bismuth is readily available ( eley ) ITM is another option for homeloaders . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinxy72 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Yes But only the five hundred rounds. I have never had the guts to try it again. John at cheshire gun rooms is the chap behind the McNab guns. I trust him, but still I feel happier with bismuth ( though not the cost ) also I was using an AYA over and under multichoke with two cylinder chokes. it is a fairly modern gun, but not specificaly proofed for steel shot as far as I know. The advice was general though, not specific to that Gun. I also wonder about the enviromental impact of the plastic wad. I wonder if it defeats the object of the excersice he would have been saying it was ok as the steel wad are normally full length of the cart .. which helps protect the barrels. personally i wouldnt do it as i wouldnt think the long-term use would be good for the gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretsbadger Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Gents, all sounds interesting, the plastic wad does defeat the object as I would not want to leave the remains on the marsh, so fibre wad is the only option for me. Souinds as though there are few options, just depends on the hitting power of some of these carts and of course the price, although in fairness I won't be going through them wholesale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 As I said initially the shot stays in the cup untill it exits, but the choke issue is also important I think. But as I also said I havent had the guts to do it again. Anyway I wasn't that happy with the results. There seemed to be less effective range with the steel. What are your thoughts on that side of it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 You can use standard steel cartridges in a gun that isn't steel proofed, as long as for the larger shot you do not use a choke tighter than half. To use high performance steel your gun must carry the fleur de lys stamp showing that it is high performance proofed. I know Gamebore do a fibre shotcup in their steel range but I don't know if it is high performance or not. Bismuth is fine in all guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretsbadger Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Basically it looks as though there are option for me to use the old Laurona SXS on the mud, which is why I rasied the question initialy. Rather than take out the Beretta which is proofed for steel..Don't fancy dropping that in the mud now eh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Always was mate, always was. Good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretsbadger Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Cheers Fella, first season out on the old brown stuff and realy looking forward to it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinter Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Sprinter, Have you used the bismuth ones without any issues then?? No issues at all. Have used it in the aya, the baikal and the lincoln lightweight. I am about to scource some 28.5g bismuth for use in the John Harper through damascus tubes the duck wont be expecting that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretsbadger Posted August 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 They definetly won't expect that no sir!! How do you find the 'punch' shall we say with the bismuth? It's a little lighter than lead i believe.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprinter Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 They definetly won't expect that no sir!! How do you find the 'punch' shall we say with the bismuth? It's a little lighter than lead i believe.. 32g of bismuth (or anything for that matter) gives you a reasonable smack aside the chops out of a light side by side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 That is where steel has the advantage . Being less dense you get more shot for less weight thus less recoil. Why dont you take the laurona to a gunsmith, one you trust, and ask them about this? What am I thinking . Stick to the bismuth. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 However, To get the same performance from steel as you do from lead the velocities are usually higher and because steel doesn't deform as well as lead the recoil from a steel cartridge is usual higher. Plus steel takes up more room in the cartridge so you don't get the recoil buffer section on the plastic wad. This is why steel knocks the older guns about so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Ahh I see. That explains the lack of range as well when its not the high performance round. As is said in the last post "what am I thinking stick to bismuth. Sorry " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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