lasbrisas Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Folks, I am looking to get a junior size shotgun for my 11 year old. He is quite small for his age so was either thinking of something like a webley & scott .410 or would you recommend say a 28g cut down to size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcw65 Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 28 bore would be better but a cheap one will be about £400 where as you can get a .410 for about £150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasbrisas Posted September 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 28 bore would be better but a cheap one will be about £400 where as you can get a .410 for about £150. Can you get junior size 28 bore or would it have to be cut down. I'm also thinking he will stand more chance of hitting clays with a 28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cushat Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 You'll have to cut most things down, unless you find an old 410 which has been shortened but he'll prob grow out of that pretty qquickly anyway. Keep the piece of wood and it can be refitted by a decent gunsmith once he grows a bit. It will hardly be noticeable if done properly. You will lose some value on it though, which wouldn't be so much of a concern on an old hundred quid 410... But if you intend to keep it (and have a nice little walk about gun for yourself ) then 28b would be better! I'm a big fan of 28b over 410's - much more chance of hitting stuff and a much wider range of cartridges around from about 16g up to 28g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 This all depends on the kids upper body strength. If he can hold a 28g without leaning back, that is definitely the gun to go for - but at 11 if the gun is too heavy the kid will loose confidence quickly as they wont be able to handle it properly. The Webley Junior is a great choice if the kid need to get confidence, but the 28g will last him much longer. A 28g can be used right up to adulthood if need be as the loads available go right up to 28g in Express Start with light loads like 14g and build as confidence grows. Make sure which ever gun you buy has a really short stock. 13" or even less. This brings the balance point back and helps the child support the gun. At this age, the shorter the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHunter Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 When he was 10 I got my lad a Lincoln premier gold 20b with the junior\ladies stock. At first it was a little barrel heavy but i altered the CofG by placing blutac and .22 pellets in the stock cavity until it balanced on the hingepin when loaded, even though the gun was slightly heaver the weight was in a better place and the gun became a real gem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Hi have been through this twice with my 2 boys. both started lessons with 28 bore,lovely gun. 1 aged 10 other aged 9 average size. I bought them both 20 bores once they showed they were keen and 'in this for life', which was at 13/14 yrs old for mine.I do not regret decison at all. .410 a funny gun, I really don't think it is a starter gun these days.All us old shooters have affection for .410s but so difficult to hit clays with.....great for 20 yard sitting rabbits which was what we started on but not confidence builders on clays where kids start today.Expensive cartridges too. 28 gauge are quite rare/expensive/and cartridge choice pretty poor..cracking guns but....... I would recommend a 20 bore, loads around already cut down /choice/better cartridge options and prices ..and initially stick to 21 gram shells...most shooting grounds use 19 gram in 28 bore; the 21g in a 20 bore v.similar recoil(low). 21g from a 20 bore will break all clays. As & when or if ready for first pigeon/rabbit have wide range of game shells readily available. Look for 25/26 inch barrels if small lad, DON'T buy a very lightweight one. All best,you and he will never forget the opening of first gunbox, put in Beaufoys poem of 1902 ''a Fathers advice''(google it if don't know it)....special day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasbrisas Posted September 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Thanks guys for all the advice, keep it coming ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasbrisas Posted September 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) Hi have been through this twice with my 2 boys.both started lessons with 28 bore,lovely gun. 1 aged 10 other aged 9 average size. I bought them both 20 bores once they showed they were keen and 'in this for life', which was at 13/14 yrs old for mine.I do not regret decison at all. .410 a funny gun, I really don't think it is a starter gun these days.All us old shooters have affection for .410s but so difficult to hit clays with.....great for 20 yard sitting rabbits which was what we started on but not confidence builders on clays where kids start today.Expensive cartridges too. 28 gauge are quite rare/expensive/and cartridge choice pretty poor..cracking guns but....... I would recommend a 20 bore, loads around already cut down /choice/better cartridge options and prices ..and initially stick to 21 gram shells...most shooting grounds use 19 gram in 28 bore; the 21g in a 20 bore v.similar recoil(low). 21g from a 20 bore will break all clays. As & when or if ready for first pigeon/rabbit have wide range of game shells readily available. Look for 25/26 inch barrels if small lad, DON'T buy a very lightweight one. All best,you and he will never forget the opening of first gunbox, put in Beaufoys poem of 1902 ''a Fathers advice''(google it if don't know it)....special day. I went to a clay shoot 2 weeks ago and took my boys with me. Eldest who's 13 but built like a 16 year old had no problem with a 12g but the 11 year old who is small for his age tried a 20g. He had no problem with the recoil but the gun was way to big and he needed some assistance as he was getting tired. Edited September 9, 2009 by lasbrisas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) My son started at the age of 9 with a webley junior 410 over and under. it was just the right weight and also is well ballanced. However because it puts a limited amount of lead in the air you have to be very acurate to hit clays with it. It will take magnum loads however and is light enough for him to have carried all day if he wanted. he now uses a 20g and hits a lot more clays, but I have kept the webley as it is quite a nice bit of kit. Also a lot of the bolt action 410's cant take the magnum rounds, and dont give you that second shot. The picture in the left upper corner is him at the age of 10 using my 12g AYA with subsonic rounds. Though he hit a lot more with that than the 410 the weight made it much harder for him to use. The recoil was not such a problem, but he is a big lad. Edited September 9, 2009 by alexr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasbrisas Posted September 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 My son started at the age of 9 with a webley junior 410 over and under. it was just the right weight and also is well ballanced. However because it puts a limited amount of lead in the air you have to be very acurate to hit clays with it. It will take magnum loads however and is light enough for him to have carried all day if he wanted. he now uses a 20g and hits a lot more clays, but I have kept the webley as it is quite a nice bit of kit. Also a lot of the bolt action 410's cant take the magnum rounds, and dont give you that second shot. The picture in the left upper corner is him at the age of 10 using my 12g AYA with subsonic rounds. Though he hit a lot more with that than the 410 the weight made it much harder for him to use. The recoil was not such a problem, but he is a big lad. We sized up a webley 410 in a shop and he felt really comfortable with it. As you mention the thing putting me off it is if he can hit anything and he is likely to lose interest if he gets bad scores. I think the way to go will be either a 28g or 20g but will need to sort out the length and weight somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) The guys at Jones's ( north wales shooting school) have a nice 20g lincoln in thats not to heavy I think they discribed it as a youths gun. its a about the £550 mark. if your from this corner of the UK it might be worth a look. Edited September 9, 2009 by alexr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RArch Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Heres a video of my 12 year old using his Baikal 410 on a couple of clays, he's able to hit them. I added a cheek-eez pad to raise the stock and since he is left eye dominant I got one of those fibre optic sights to help but he still shuts one eye to shoot. He was using 3" 19g No 6s Fioccho cartridges which have become our favorite all rounder, unfortunately 410 cartridges are expensive, the best I cant these down to is £5 per box if you buy 1000. As you can see in the video he leans back a little but another year and the weight wont be an issue. We do a bit of rough shooting too, no problems carrying it and he has shoot more than a few crows/jackdaws during the summer holidays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Heres a video of my 12 year old using his Baikal 410 on a couple of clays, he's able to hit them. I didn't say you couldn't do it just that you had to be more acurate to do it. The boy used gamebore 3 inch 16g. 19g is closer to the loads in a 20 gage light load shell. I might have to try these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RArch Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Sorry Alexr, I didnt intend on post sounding like I was having a dig Jason started off on easy clays, incomers that sort of hang in the air making a stationary shoot. He is now able to hit some quartering clays, in that video the clays were going away. I guess on these easy clays he is about 60/40 which has helped his confidence and keep the enjoyment going. We did use 11g cartridges to begin with but swapped over to the 19g ones make thing easier. The main restriction I see for a young chap is the weight of the gun, a 410 should be lighter and I cant imagine the Baikal being the lightest make. I'd love to get him a double barrel but weight of it I think would put him off and feeding such a gun with 410 cartridges would double the cost... Ideally, I'd like to get him using a single barrel 12g (cheaper to run) but wonder if the kick back even from a 21g cartridge would be too much for him. Anybody got an idea of the weight a single barrel 12g would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexr Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Hi RArch i take it from the comment about the single barrel, yours like mine will fire that second shot whither he needs to or not. The subsonic rounds are 24 or 28g I think, but the slower burn causes less recoil. They are a bit tricky if you are used to normal shells as I, at any rate, tend to over estimate the lead. but if that were all he was using then that wouldn't be a problem. They are not cheep though and from what I can remember they are dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHunter Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Just a quick word of warning. I have just tried to trade-in my 20b Lincoln Premier with the junior\stock and even though the weapon is in immaculate condition and only fired 1000 rds it was passed over because of the stock size (13 1/2" pull inc kickeazi pad). I was told it could sit on the shelf for months as their is a very limited market. So if you want an immaculate starter 20b let me know. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasbrisas Posted September 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Just a quick word of warning. I have just tried to trade-in my 20b Lincoln Premier with the junior\stock and even though the weapon is in immaculate condition and only fired 1000 rds it was passed over because of the stock size (13 1/2" pull inc kickeazi pad). I was told it could sit on the shelf for months as their is a very limited market. So if you want an immaculate starter 20b let me know. LOL I probably would but I am working on getting my licence so it wouldn't be just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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