adbirdy Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Just need a few pointers if anyone has any. I have a 5 month old cocker whichI have been training using Joe Irving's book. He is a keen retriever and I have only been giving him one or two retrieves every other day. Recently he has taken to not bringing the dummy back to hand, instead he seems to play with it and seems reluctant to bring it in to hand. Does any one have any suggestions as to cure this problem or will he just grow out of it as he gets older? Cheers for any help Ade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyboots Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 start backing away from him when he is bringing it and hopefuly that will make him come into you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 He WON'T grow out of it - lay off retrieving and get him coming into you with real enthusiuasm when you call his name. That will do for now, he's obviously happy enough to retrieve so back off it until he's a bit older and you can correct him if required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 ... lay off retrieving and get him coming into you with real enthusiuasm when you call his name. That will do for now, he's obviously happy enough to retrieve so back off it until he's a bit older and you can correct him if required. There are no right or wrong ways of training a gundog, but there are retarding--not retarded, but retarding, as in retarding development--ways. Withholding retrieves has always struck me as...well, I won't say with a specific phrase. But how does it advance a gundog? OK, it "advances" steadiness, maybe, and it "advances" patience (and may "advance" a dampening of pup's enthusiasm for retrieving). But withholding retrieves does nothing for getting down the recall. And the recall, as basic obedience, should supersede retrieving for a pup. So if you've got a pup that does retrieve--but that doesn't retrieve to you--put it on a checkcord or long line, send it for the dummy or bird, and as soon as it gets its mouth on said object, "tow" it in excitedly whilst blowing either the come-in whistle or repeating "Here! Here! Here!" till the pup's at your side or in front of you. Have no bother about whether the pup has held onto whatever it was sent to retrieve--again, the recall is what's imperative. The pup will learn soon enough what its priority is, and will twin that with the other priority of retrieving, and you will have a compliant retrieving gundog. And if you want to try to get that reliable recall going before resorting to a long line, then, turning your back on the pup whilst walking away--as cited above--is a good first step. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adbirdy Posted September 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 I don't have a recall problem he comes in very well to the recall whistle. He retrieves dummies well but will not bring them right to hand, he just runs around with it about an arms length away and just seems to show off with it. I have tried backing off from him, crouching right down so as not to be intimidating but nothing seems to get him closer than that arms length away, it's very fustrating. I have always been very careful to never snatch anyhthing from the dog as I know this can cause problems, so I'm really not sure how to proceed. Ade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinois Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Its not the snatching that causes problems, it is teaching the dog that everything he brings back to you, you will take off of him. Not so bad with an adult but with a puppy they don't like it. See if you can put him on a long line, throw a retrieve out and then when he has got it, very gently reel him in until he is right up to you. Very calmy pick him up and in a calm and gentle voice with slow and calm actions stroke him and tell him what a good dog he is. Do this for about 30 seconds then put him back down on the ground. Let him run around then encourage or reel him in and do the same again. After the third time you have done this, on the fourth time just hold onto the dummy and in a very caml voice keep repeating your leave command or that it is dead. DO not pull on the dummy, wait until he gives it up. When he gives it up, put the dummy in your pocket and in a very calm voice again praise him, let him know how great he is. Do this once every other day. In the meantime no other planned retrieves. If he gets anything unplanned then pick him up, 30 secs praise then hold onto it until he lets it go. He just needs to learn that dad is not going to take it, he is just nicely sharing. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 (edited) He retrieves dummies well but will not bring them right to hand, he just runs around with it about an arms length away and just seems to show off with it. Because he's a pup and it's a game for him. Nothing wrong with that. What you have to do is show him the game's on your terms without taking away his game. Thus the checkcord, and as you tow him in, praise, praise, praise. You've got to juggle all this: the recall with the rope, the recall whistle if you choose to blow it interspersed with the "Here!" command, and the aforementioned praise, along with guiding the dog to where you want him to end up with the dummy. It's an art and has to be worked at by you as well as the dog. Frankly, I'm gobsmacked by the earlier revelation that the side sit delivery is seldom made over there--knowing that, I would also infer a front sit finish for delivery is likewise scarely seen. But you want to get the dog under control for recall and delivery, and fostering the expectation that the dog must sit in delivering the dummy or bird makes for a more structured recall. I have always been very careful to never snatch anyhthing from the dog as I know this can cause problems, so I'm really not sure how to proceed. Proceed to train the dog, not have the dog train you--that's the flipside of a dog blowing you off on his terms, puppy or not. You're implicitly trained to accept it if you don't do something about it. Good luck, MG Edited September 18, 2009 by cracker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen shooter Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 hi well if you have read Joes book it will tell you dont send your pup to university till its ready let it be a pup, when hes older he will look at you and ask what now . he will get there ,sit stay come the rest will come cheers jen shooter good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul in North Lincs. Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 if it were a little older I would be tempted to send it to the the dummy on a long retractable lead - and draw him in when ge messes about. As a pup though i owuldnt want him to get into the habbit of thinking this is a game... perhaps lay off the retreiving for a day or so, and reinfornce the recall command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallarben Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 get yourself in a corner of a field get down on ur knees let the dog come in but he cannt run round u dont take the retrieve straight of him fuss him let him carry it at heel see how that goes mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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