Requesting deer on FAC

[Lloyd90]

How do you go about requesting Deer on your FAC ? I have land with Deer but orriginally only asked for fox as was my first CF, well Ive been out a few times with my mentor and I asked him about it, He says just ask them to add it. I can then go stalking with him on the land we both have permission on and shoot one myself as he shows me the ropes

 

Both him and our other mates who shoot there never did DSC but both are experienced stalkers having stalked around the country. They told me don't bother with it and just argue with the FEO to add them on

[Mr_Logic]

Your mentor is right. I am assuming you don't have anything big enough for deer now?

 

If not, put in a variation for a deer calibre and put as your good reason "deer shooting". Feo will visit and talk mentor/dsc. You say mentor, then enjoy :-)

[David BASC]

I agree with the above, but just be aware that although you will probably be granted a variation, there may well be ‘conditions’ on your certificate.

 

I would mention that you already have a mentor who is willing to come out with you, this will go down well, but make sure the condition does not say you will ALWAYS need to go out with a mentor, that would be a bit restrictive if you could only go stalking with them for the next 5 years!

 

D

[al4x]

you can of course go out with him and his rifle and get experience that way if he will allow it.

[Dunkield]

I would apply for it and get a covering letter from your mentor (stating his experience) to say you have been out several times and are competent already.

That way you might swerve the mentoring condition and having to do the DSC1.

It's got to be worth a try.

[Lloyd90]

I already have the condition that I can only use my 243 with him, so I doubt they can slap that on me lol!

The rifle I have is a 243 CZ 550 so big enough for deer.

 

Im going to get a letter from the land owner stating I am specifically allowed to stalk the deer hopefully be ok :unsure:

[David BASC]

In that case it should be a straight variation, but as Stuart says, get the letter from your mentor and maybe get this condition removed at the time of your variation?

 

D

[snozzer]

I thought all this mentor and dsc requirement nonsense had gone...

[David BASC]

It is not a requirement in law, it is not in the Firearms Act or the police guidance notes. But the way some forces act you would think it is!

 

If the police FLO say - you must have DSC1 or a mentor then you could play hard ball, simply point out that it is not in the act etc, and say 'grant or refuse' suggest though if you get to that stage it would be good to have your chosen association briefed and ready to support you.

 

David

[Cushat]

if you get to that stage it would be good to have your chosen association briefed and ready to support you.

 

And from personal experience it is very unlikely that your "chosen association" would support you if you took this hard line approach. The Chief Officer of Police can impose any "reasonable" condition he wishes and my "chosen association" didn't seem to think that a mentor/DSC condition was unreasonable, or at least not so unreasonable that it was worth making a big fuss over.

[Skippy]

So you have to be supervised by a mentor? Am i reading this right in that your Police force are imposing unneccesary conditons. I take it you are over 14 i believe it is

 

Bless em

[David BASC]

Much depends on your constabulary, there is little or no consistency, although things are getting better. Much will depend on your overall experience with rifles. Some constabularies will accept that if you are already a rifle shooter then adding another ‘species’ to your ticket is not an issue. This is the attitude that BASC is campaigning with the Home Office, ACPO and individual constabularies- in effect you licence the person not the rifle if you see what I mean.

 

If you have no experience at all with a rifle, or cannot clearly demonstrate it, then frankly most constabularies will not grant without conditions, so it is up to you get some experience, with a mentor, under the ‘estate rifle’ exemption for example. No one is asking for loads of experience, typically three stalks is enough.

 

If you have this witnessed before you go for grant / renewal it will certainly help, otherwise you may find this as a ‘condition’ on your licence, i.e. you must be accompanied early on. You may feel this is a tad unjust, but if that is all it takes to get your licence granted or variation, and the condition only applies for say 3-6 months...is it that bad?

 

Some constabularies will try to insist you go on a course. Again if you have no experience with rifles at all that you can demonstrate, then this is an option if the ‘estate rifle’ mentoring is not available to you.

 

But again, if you are experienced say fox shooting or rabbit shooting what is the need or a course on deer??

 

However, be warned, there are some constabularies, 4-5 , that are really tough when it comes to deer, and unfortunately the only option is to do as they ask or go to court to appeal if they refuse to grant / vary. This is potentially costly - £5-10k and even if you win the courts usually split costs – so you end up paying. If you are a BASC member you can apply for funding for an appeal, (see BASC web site for details on the firearms section) Some other organisations offer legal expenses insurance, many home insurance policies offer legal expenses insurance –so you may already have it anyway, and of course you can buy legal expenses insurance for a few tens of pounds if you want to. Caveat emptor.

 

If you are stuck with one of these ‘awkward’ constabularies then by all means call your association for guidance. I cannot speak for the other orgs, but in the case of BASC we know all the licensing people and licensing managers on a first name basis, so we will be more than happy to call them on your behalf and see what we can do to help.

 

The associations can’t wave magic wands and cure all ills, we are certainly working towards a fairer and consistent system, and BASC will soon be adding a new section to the BASC Firearms part of the web, showing clearly our plans, and strategy with the Home Office and ACPO. In 2009 BASC will be rolling out a media campaign within the main ‘in house’ police magazines that goes to senior officers and we will keep running our ‘training courses’ for constabulary licensing teams to increase their knowledge about the type and use of sporting firearms.

 

Good luck

 

David