My gun traveling/importing experiences and some rules to go by

[casts_by_fly]

Hi All,

 

I thought others might be interested in my recent adventures and debacles and may learn something from them.

 

As some of you know, I moved over here in July of this year from the US. Obviously I have a keen interest in shooting and hunting or else I wouldn't be on this site. So I applied for my shotgun and firearms certificates. After the requisite waiting and interviews, I was granted both just before Christmas. I applied for and received clearance for 17 HMR, 22 LR, 223, 30-06, and shotgun. I decided to leave the section 1 shotguns at home for now and will add them as a variance later.

 

My plan was to get a 4-gun case and bring back the 4 most important of the guns (not the 30-06) as my checked baggage on our trip home from Christmas. Then there is no shipping involved and I would be present when they needed to verify any certificate questions. Item number one on my Christmas list was a 4-gun case.

 

I checked with my Airline (Virgin Atlantic) about gun rules and carrying them. They said no problems, bring as many as you want so long as you follow TSA and BAA regulations. No problem I thought. Then I remembered that we have a connecting flight from Pittsburgh to NY on Delta. Alas, we hit snag number one. Delta only permits 2 guns in any one case. If you carry 2 cases you are assessed an extra baggage fee, even if they are your only two bags. So 4 guns in one case was out.

 

Sure enough, Christmas morning at my parents I see a monster sized gift with my name on it. I open it to find an awesome SKB 4-gun case, one of the only 4-gun cases made. At that point I had to explain to my parents that I couldn't use it anymore and we had to exchange it for a smaller one.

 

Rule #1: Always check with ALL of your airlines and any connecting flights. We booked our tickets through Virgin, so they chose the connector. I didn't think to request something other than delta.

 

After a great holiday break that included exchanging my 4-gun case for a smaller case and some reloading gear, it was time to go home. I decided on the two guns I would bring back right now (12 O/U and 17 HMR). I packed all of my bags in accordance with FAA/TSA/BAA regs and the guidance I was given from my airlines. We go to the airport and check in was fine. The security screener was an alright guy and checked the gun case through. Interestingly, I found some info from him that contradicted the airlines. Specifically, that (1) ammunition is allowed to be in your firearms case and (2) firearms do not need to be deactivated in the case. This brings us to rule #2.

 

Rule #2: Not everyone plays by the same rules. TSA rules allow ammo and firearms to be in the same case. BAA rules do not. Airlines are all different, but the BAA/TDA screeners are the ones that allow them onto the plane in the first place. FOLLOW THE MOST STRICT SET OF RULES THAT YOU WILL ENCOUNTER IN YOUR TRAVELS.

 

I had listened to BAA and packed my ammunition (only 230 rounds of 17 HMR) in my checked baggage, so I would be fine once entering the UK. However, I had followed some other advice that said you render the firearm inoperable should someone get into the case. I pulled the bolt out of my HMR and put it in my backpack. We had a lot of bags and were one bag over limit ($75) on the domestic leg of our flight, so my two backpacks were my carry-on baggage. This brings us to the next rule.

 

Rule #3: Under NO circumstances should you pack any firearms, firearms parts, ammunition (spent or loaded), ammunition components (primers, heads, brass, etc), or other questionable material in your carry-on.

 

This was my mistake. It is clearly laid out on the TSA website and I missed it. I didn't see the harm of a rifle bolt. Not like it can fire on its own. Security didn't see it that way. When the bag went through, it was pulled and I was pulled aside. I explained what the item was and fortunately they security screener was a cool guy. We filed the security report and they gave me the bolt back. I was sent back through to the check in desk so the backpack could be placed in the checked baggage. Delta didn't like this idea though. It seems that the manager on duty was under the impression that all firearms (true) and firearms parts (not true) had to be placed in a hard case in checked baggage. She wasn't letting that bolt go on the plane unless it was in some hard case. Fortunately for me I had my new eyeglass case in my backpack and an HMR bolt is small. In the case it goes and another $75 later (for an extra bag fee) they have my backpack checked through.

 

Now I have 25 minutes before departure, so I have to hussle through the airport. We are still in the central terminal and have to take a tram to the next one. A really nice flight crew (pilots and attendants) of 12 people let me in front of them going through security and we made the flight just one time to board. So far so good. The flights were uneventful. We transferred at JFK from delta to Virgin which brings us to rule #4.

 

Rule #4: JFK airport is the worst choice of NYC airports for transfers on international flights. There are 9 terminals. Many are under construction. The Virgin terminal (#3) is one of them. I'm sure it will be nice once it is done, but it is still a royal pain to move between them amid the construction. Choose Newark or avoid NYC altogether if you can.

 

After a nice stay in the Virgin lounge (wife is a gold card carrier) and some awesome food we made the virgin flight overnight to Heathrow. Flight came in at 6 AM. At 6:30 while waiting for our baggage my name comes over the intercom. No problem, that's how they do firearms and ammunition. I go to the desk and they inform me that there are 2 bags of our 6 that did not make it onto this flight. We collected our bags (including my backpack that was checked in 25 minutes before departure in Pittsburgh) and went back to the counter. Seems the gun case and my clothing bag (containing ammunition) didn't make it. They were marked for delivery in the system and were to come on a BA flight out of Newark in a few hours. They would have them to me that night (Sunday).

 

Rule #5 and #6: Don't trust everything the airlines tell you and always take names. It turns out that the first problem came in Pittsburgh. The guns and my bag with ammunition didn't make it onto the initial Delta flight. That was the last flight of the day to JFK (see rule #4 above), so they sent it to Newark on a continental flight. By some infinite wisdom, they decided it would be better to give the bags to British Airways in Newark, rather than Virgin.

 

So as of this moment, both bags are with BA in Newark and no one in any tracing center can get an update. I have spoken to BA in the US and Virgin both places. None can get an update from the BA baggage center in Newark as to why there is a hold up or when they bags will be sent. The call centers for bag tracking are all based around their internet based systems so they put them in random places, not the actual airports you are trying to call. If you get through to someone in the airports of interest, take their name and direct phone number. At least then you will have a better contact than someone in a call center. If you have a lost baggage report reference, you can track your bags online. BA has a link on their website, but it works with all baggage carriers numbers. The number will be the airport code where it was filed (LHR here) followed by a 2-letter airline descriptor (VS) and a 5-digit identifier.

 

I will update this thread as things are resolved. As far as Virgin and HM rev. and Customs is concerned my paperwork is fine. They have copies of my certificates, plane ticket, and passport. They have a carrier to deliver the bags to me. We just have to get BA to give the bags to Virgin somewhere and some how.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[tulkyuk]

Hope it turns out ok for you - fancy them not putting the only 2 bags the with firearm and bullets on the plane with you

 

Time to cause a right stink and get some compo from the airline for them possibly putting lives in danger, by mis-laying your firearms

[casts_by_fly]

tulkyuk,

 

Once I have my bags back you can believe that I will be doing that. I just don't know which airline to go after. I flew Delta and Virgin. However the initial switch came from Delta giving the bags to Continental. I don't know who said to give them to BA (Continental or Delta) but BA seems to be the holdup right now. Virgin was great when I was still in Heathrow airport (did I mention that I went back to the airport at 10 PM on Sunday after the call center told me the bags were there?) but their call center is useless.

 

I'm thinking a lifetime gold card on Virgin and at least 2 tickets back to the states on Virgin and/or BA.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[tulkyuk]

Good man Rick

 

because i bet it will be your *** in a sling, if the go missing and end up in the hands of someone they shouldn't.

[Dunkield]

Rule #4: JFK airport is the worst choice of NYC airports for transfers on international flights. There are 9 terminals. Many are under construction. The Virgin terminal (#3) is one of them. I'm sure it will be nice once it is done, but it is still a royal pain to move between them amid the construction. Choose Newark or avoid NYC altogether if you can.

I had the JFK experience twice last year, it's America's backside at the moment isn't it?

I didn't have guns but I was sold some stuff (can't remember what now) in one of the new terminals and was told catagorically it would be fine to carry it onboard.

Obviously it wasn't and I had to go back to check-in from the gate security and check a second bag in with just the stuf in it that I had bought.

I would have dumped it in the bin, but I knew damn well the security guy would have fished it out when I had gone through

[fortune]

It’s just like everything lately; it’s just a complete red tape mess. Everyone is interpreting stupid rules in the way that it reads to them or covers their rear. A couple of years ago, I saw one of these airline type programs where a couple of Scandinavian guys were going hunting in Canada or somewhere and they to had taken the bolts out of their rifles and put them in their hand luggage for safety. They were pulled on it and had to put the bolts into the guns in the hold. It just goes to show how stupid the regulators are. Some one should tell them and MAKE them understand that a gun without a bolt aint much use other that as a club and a bolt without a gun to put it in is the same.

Joke >> Tommy Cooper >> Gun – Bolt. Bolt - Gun.

[casts_by_fly]

Hi Guys,

 

I just spoke with Virgin and BA. The bags are scheduled to go onto the next Virgin flight out of Newark to Heathrow. I should have them either tomorrow evening or the following evening depending how long it takes Virgin to walk them through customs and give them to the delivery company. All of the paperwork is fine, it is just the time to get them here.

 

An interesting tidbit I found out is that BA requires all ammunition to be in hard plastic cases and locked. Most other airlines I've dealt with or called don't. I think for any future travels with firearms AND ammo, all ammo will be in a hard locked case inside of my baggage. Had Virgin not picked up the bags, BA would not have shipped my suitcase that has the ammo in it. BA also doesn't send firearms unattended. So short of a very special exclusion, my bags weren't coming BA.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[casts_by_fly]

latest update- the bags will be delivered on Saturday.

 

In an odd twist, the delivery company needs to send the two bags in two separate delivery vans. Since one has ammo and one has guns, they can't have them both in the same truck. Don't know who's rule that is, but I'm glad I'm not paying for it.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[tulkyuk]

Glad to hear your getting them back mate

[al4x]

latest update- the bags will be delivered on Saturday.

 

In an odd twist, the delivery company needs to send the two bags in two separate delivery vans. Since one has ammo and one has guns, they can't have them both in the same truck. Don't know who's rule that is, but I'm glad I'm not paying for it.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

 

the interesting bit about that is they usually use bog standard courier companies for baggage thats been misrouted, so there will be a driver with no firearms ticket etc in control of your guns and ammo. Some bits of the system lack any form of common sense

[casts_by_fly]

the courrier is bonded to transport the guns, but not store them. They have to pick them up from locked storage at Heathrow where either Virgin or Customs has a licensed lockup and drive them straight to me. They cannot store them overnight, so if I'm not home when they come to deliver they have to wait until I am.

 

I don't know how it works with individual drivers being bonded/licensed, but the courier company must be. Many carriers won't handle firearms because of that. TNT does as goes global transport (Virgin's carrier of choice).

 

FWIW, the firearms are in double locked baggage. The HMR doesn't have a bolt in it (I have that here) and there are not shotgun carts in the unlocked bag. So even if someone were to break into both bags and get everything out, they still could not fire a shot.

 

thanks,

rick

[casts_by_fly]

guns are here. They were 3 hours late on the delivery and they brought both in one van. The driver admitted that he wasn't supposed to do it, but it was a long drive from london and they didn't want to tie up a second truck.... Hmmmm....

 

time to get out for some bunnies now.

 

thanks

rick