Maiden22

More times the stagecoach that used to drive by **** Turpin's local. Dusty Fox must be spinning in his virtual grave. Now, I have never hijacked a thread, and never will, but I have just noticed that we've all been reading this wrong. Harnser's original question (in the title of the thread) was "Why Don't You Post Boys [?]". For most people, its probably because you couldn't fit boys through the letter box, let alone find a big enough envelope. Take THAT, would-be thread hijackers! Robert

The Essex Mafia of course! Robert

As it should be Harnser. What I meant was that in today's society I don't think that a process like that would be possible, however desireable it might be in many cases. I think that the US system is quite cruel in its way - it seems that many condemned men serve what is in effect a life sentence before being executed. Robert

What does TWIMC mean? I can't be bothered Googling it. YOU say this is something the EU has got right. I on the other hand, don't think the EU ever has got anything right, or ever will. I can't think of any good reasons for keeping paedos alive. Kill 'em all. **** 'em its like you two are in my head reading my mind. i love you guys. not in a gay way of course, in a brotherly man love way Treason and murder. the two worst things in the world this is an island, and a mighty one at that. so let send all the murderers and **** to the Isle of man instead if not,,,,,,,,, they know who comes out...................... its "Mr Socky" I also firmly support Mr Socky for the post of chief justice. He's looking very snappy today by the way . Robert

That is my argument in a nutshell. It is logically irreducible beyond this point. Again though, one is innocent, and the victim of a wicked person. The other is guilty, and is being made to bear the consequences of his wickedness. I diferentiate between the two, as surely you must also. Life is sacred, but the right to life is not absolute - witness the fact that most of us would agree with killing in self-defence. If you attempt to murder another person, and can only be stopped by being killed, you have forfeited your right to life. In the same way, I beleive that your right to life can be forfeited by committing murder. Surely it does not follow from this that there is no right to life, or that a person carrying out a lawful execution forfeits his own life? Robert

A considered post , but 'wrong' is a moral position. The law prohibits certain actions, which are called 'wrong' but that does not make them 'morally wrong', or evil. Killing is morally wrong. The issue here is premeditation and personal gratification. It's not about safeguards and getting the right man. Consider this - a man decides that at 11.00 am on Thursday he will go and kill another person, he is not going there with the possiblity of killing another person, or knowing he may be called upon to kill in self-defence. He does it because he believes it is right that the other person should die. It is premeditated and unambiguous. Who am I talking about here? Britains last hangman, or the Yorkshire Ripper? I regularly get into arguments over this, I am against the death penalty. But I take some comfort from the fact that in my argument I am protecting the right to life of those are in favour of the death penalty, unlike them who are trying to remove my right to life - and they wonder why I get upset! That's also why I had alot to say about the euthansia thread a month back. All we need now is some of the knee jerk lazy thinkers to start accusing me of being sympathetic to child abusers! (Don't even think about hinting it). Here's a laugh, why don't we make a CRB check compulsory for membership of the forum? It costs about £6.00. I agree with a lot of what you say, and I am also opposed to euthanasia. The sanctity of human life also leads to me to oppose abortion. But I think that the key difference is there is innoncence - the unborn child is innocent, whereas the murderer has made a decision to comit evil. Absolutely, morally wrong and legally wrong may well be, and frequently are, very different things. But the law may be based on what a society judges to be morally right. I don't beleive that killing is morally wrong. Would you not kill in self-defence, or in defence of your family or country? If not, then I accept that the discussion is over, and of course if you beleive that killing is always wrong, then so be it. The hangman does not kill in self-defence in a narrow sense. However, I think that such killing serves to defend the innocent in society as a whole. So far from removing your right to life, I beleive that my stance protects it - assuming that you never murder someone. As I said, I acknowledge that decent people oppose the death penalty based on both morality and reason. I think however that both are flawed. Robert

I can't agree with the logic of this. Death is an appropriate way of punishing and deterring those who wrongfully and deliberately take life. They have performed the ultimate wrong against another person, and no other penalty is sufficient to satisfy the requirements of justice. It does not therefore follow that the appropriate punishment for other crimes should be of the nature of the original crime. There are alternatives that are preferrable, as they might offer puishment, the chance of rehabilitation, and respite for the public from criminals. However, I (and I suspect many others) would support the concept of burglars being compelled to make financial restitution to their victims. This would not however be burglary - it would be restitution in accordance with the law and limited to the extent of the loss suffered. I think that there are many arguments in favour of executing murderers, and would enjoy testing them with you. As a starting point, I beleive that justice demands it and it helps to protect the innocent against the violent and predatory. Again, I confess that I cannot see the moral equivalence of a cold-blooded murder of an innocent victim, and the execution of a wicked person following due process of law. I don't think that it is revenge - it is justice, and the two are very different. As for being cheaper, one of the arguments commonly used by the "anti" lobby is that, on the contrary, it is much more expensive. This is due to the cost of the necessary appeals process. Robert

Killing can be right or wrong. Wrongful killing is called murder. The argument applies in the favour of those who do not kill wrongfully, and against those who do. It is absurd to compare the actions of a murderer with a robust legal system and all the safeguards that this entails. Human life is sacred, as is human liberty. However, this does not mean that a person may not forfeit these rights through their own wickedness. The retention of the ultimate sanction protects those who obey the law against wrongful killing. Contiuned existence, liberty, posession of property or any other right is down to the whim of the government in any country. This is literally the case for the majority of human beings. The exception are those lucky few that live in countries governed by the rule of law, normally one that is based on Judaeo-Christian concepts of right and wrong. We live in such a country, although I fear that this happy state, that we all take for granted, may not last my lifetime. The European declaration of human rights, by which Britain is bound and which prohibits capital punishment, is a very strange and entirely alien document. It assumes no natural rights, but rather grants certain rights that are in the gift of the state. You will find that these can be recinded in the interests of the state. What is not expressly permitted is forbidden. British rights, based on our slowly-evolved common law and various documents such as Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights, are entirely different. All is permitted except that which is expressly forbidden. British rights stem from restrictions placed upon the state, not from priveleges granted to us by the state. Opposition to the death penalty has nothing to do with greater civilisation. Ask yourself whether Britain is a more or less civilised country now than it was when we executed the worst of our criminals. The majority of the EU arms its police officers as a matter of course, thereby tacitly accepting the possibility, indeed the likelihood, of extra-judicial execution. In Britain we do not, although it is a sad and distressing fact that police officers are increasingly carrying deadly weapons. This state of affairs would have been unthinkable when we had the death penalty, and a very small number of murderers were executed after due process of the most robust legal system in the world, conducted in full view of the public gaze and determined by a jury of 12 citizens. Now and in future an increasing number will be executed by the state with no such safeguards. I know which option I consider to be more "socially advanced".

Mother of ******* Christ, what is going on here? I go away for a day and a half, and come back to find that sleepy old PW has turned into some kind of sex slave ebay! Robert

I firmly support the death penalty in cases of murder and treason. Without wishing to give offence, and whilst fully appreciating that many decent and thoughtful people oppose hanging, the arguments against capital punishment (especially the "mistake" argument) seem to me to be thoroughly feeble and rather naive. Having said that, I even more firmly support the rule of law, and some of the comments on this thread are childish and crass beyond belief. In particular, the expression of support for brutality, torture and extra-judicial punishment is quite worrying in people who (presumably) consider themselves fit to lawfully hold firearms. I am sure that I have just offended pretty much everyone, and so will add only one more comment. How many posters realise that this is an entirely theoretical debate, and why this is so? Everyone in the land, from the greatest to the basest, could be in favour of the restoration of capital punishment, and it would make not one iota of difference. This is because British laws no longer have primacy in Britain. Our entaglement in the cess-pool of corruption, waste and bureaucracy that is the European Union means that hanging is, and will remain, illegal, regardless of the wishes of the public or the legislature. Robert

al4x, next picture in the series please . Robert

***** Robert

Funny that - it's got me stroking away nicely . Where did he find a picture like that so quickly ? Robert

So you've noticed the drain covers, eh Chard? Does this mean that you are interested in MANHOLES when you're out dogging ? Robert

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You disgust me . Have a good one old bean. Robert

Bob, Chard, this stuff is priceless, keep it up! Robert

How do you suppose you are going to be come a better shooter, if you don't open your eyes and broaden your thinking?....... Tut, tut young man.......cor kids of today eh?.......Cant tell em any thing! :blink: :blink: :blink: Right, that's the final straw. I'm sick of you lot and your entertaining posts and banter on general topics. I'm off to start my own proper dogging forum with Dusty Fox, for serious topics only. Turnips indeed! Robert

Can we return to the topic please? The frivolous comments above have no place on a serious dogging forum such as this. Robert

James, wrong forum mate I think thats the swingers one ah **** I logged into the wrong site again............. No j@mes you are on the right site ,but it seems that a bunch of doggers (what ever that may be ) have taken over the thread . Harnser . Norfolk is renown for being dogger,dogger land........ Lost count of the amount I have had to sit and watch trying to protect the farmers interests when out with the lamp when on the norfolk border. Good thing you weren't lamping for beaver . Robert

Harv, as one of the afore-mentioned younger members, I don't think that your post is appropriate. Robert PS I've helpfully filled in the missing words.

Congrats. Don't go mad though, there's a credit crunch on. Robert

Robert

Thanks Neil, it's something I quite fancy having a try at one day. Don't be put off by the replys, I'm sure there's no harm meant. Especially Mung - he is the PW Baron Of Banter. Robert

£180 LOL Robert