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It is all just good/sexy marketing "extreme" game nametag? etc. Proof presure can not be exceeded with any cartridge so they all work within that. The cartidge parts may be slightly different, fast powder vs slow powder = felt recoil. Wads if fibre then with the exception of eley they all use Diana wads. Shot, hardness may be 3% or 5% but Diamond shot vs "normall" shot = no difference in performace just normal shot is treated with graphite powder and I think diamond shot is treated with aluminum powder. Cases cheap carts will have 8mm head vs expensive 20mm or more. Find a cartridge you like for price and recoil and stick with it. #6 pigeon/game or #5game for "high" birds.

Hi Vince, if it is the terms and conditions - then would that not be "law". Just think the jiffy bag enters the automatic sorting machine and the primers explode damaging the machine or a worker near by - do you think the royal mail would let it go without further action? I thick they would inform the police, HSSE etc and investigate to try and find who sent them. I would not risk posting them.

Hi all, Regret you can not send primers by normal royal mail, you will need to use a courier service.

Hi Pete, I live near you and may be able to help PM (email) me with your phone number and I will give you a call. John.

I watched a friend (sorry les if you read this) missing clays on a stand and he suddenly got out a tracer round, only have three remaining now he said, you can guess what happened next ......he fired the tracer and ....... it was the only clay he broke!! Save your money.

Gamebore Kent Velocity #7.5 Fibre for me (when I am not reloading my own) £159 per 1000 good cartridge fair price in this day and age.

Ah SHOT gun cert not FAC theres is a vast difference I can see no difference either one or both would have been revoked (he only had a shotgun). In fact an FAC will be at more risk I suspect.

I think the police are just not willing to take the risk, yes you could appeal to a court and then the reponsibility would be with the judge not the police. You can see the newspaper heladline - poice ignore previous drinking problems that allowed the gun owner to go on and commit ....

No previous that I know about, a young lad in his twenties who shot with his father (his father has taken owership of his gun). A few days after the court case Kent police revoked the licence. He was told he could reapply after three years. he can still shot at the Clubs due to the "Section 11 excemption" that most clubs operate under. Your licence is a privilege, make one error that brings in question your suitability to own a gun and in this day and age, it will be taken from you !!!

Fact:- A member of my local gun club, was done for drink driving a few weeks ago, and within days Kent police revoked his shotgun certificate.

Hi David, Was not the Home Affairs Select Committee’s enquiry as a result of the sad events in cumbria? If so what has:- There are also sections focusing on young people, air weapons and international comparisons. Separate pieces of supplemental evidence concentrate on: * Gun security - outlining the current system of security and BASC's objection to central storage of firearms and ammunition. * The criminal use of firearms - focusing on deactivated weapons and the crossover from legally-owned weapons into the criminal pool. Got to do with the events at cumbria - Bird was not "young" or used ilegal guns. After watching the vidoe for one of the Home Affairs Select Committee’s meetings (posted on the web via this forum) I sent the email below, needless to say i did not get a reply. Sorry for the long post. *** Email sent *** Dear Rt Hon Keith Vaz, Having read ACC Whiting’s report and watched the video for HOC Home Affairs Committee meeting Tuesday 16 November at 11.24am, one is reminded of the children’s story: The Emperor's New Clothes. The Cumbria police had two opportunities to revoke Mr Bird’s gun licences long before the tragic incident on the 2nd June 2010. His 1982 conviction for "drink-driving” should have resulted in his gun licences being revoked as has recently happened to a member of my local gun club. so why do different police forces act differently? Yes Mr bird may have appealed against this decision but the appeal would have been a matter for the courts not the police who would have been seen to have done their job correctly. We have gun laws that are fit for purpose the issue should not be the type of gun, shotgun, rifle, pistol but the person who owns the gun. Licencing should be about the individuals good character, metal state etc and not the firearm. The video shows because no one will challenge the fundamental question why Cumbria police did not revoke the licence it only remains for the Home Affairs Committee to deliberate on issues that are irrelevant in this case i.e. the age that children can obtain a licence, do violent computer games have an effect or lets move the responsibility to the GP. This was a tragic incident that should and could have been avoided. We should be proud of what this country’s sports men and women achieve in shooting, for example England won five gold, one silver and one bronze medal in the recent commonwealth games for shotgun events. And in George Digweed we have the worlds best shot. ***

The NSRA have an excemption for club officers for "gallery guns" .22LR but I am not sure how it works as the Club also has an FAC. Check with the Police or NSRA.

Eley have issued their 2011 price list showing .22LR HP subs at around £97 per 1000 ........ouch!! Can currently get Fiocchi for around £62 per 1000 and they shoot every bit as good as eley.

Numbers look down so far on last year at the little shoot I belong to, so I am leaving them to fly on.

I may be wrong but I go for bottom barrel first as you get less muzzel flip from the bottom barrel and hence a quicker second shot should you need it. That is why fixed choke guns are normally have tighter choke in top barrel. Yep same as Chris who posted seconds before me (one finger typist).

Yep 100% agree with floating chamber - I too have several MEC600 each set and never changed unless I run out of one type of case. Would not want to keep swaping dies from one gauge to another. Also have a dillon SL900 expensive and very fussy with case make/type (not all cases are equal) very quick to use but for most part I use the MEC which has a much better final crimp. I picked my MECs up via ebay, but second hand from the USA - "slow post" to keep the cost down each was under £100 delivered.

Have not loaded any 410 for a while now, but I found it best to roll-crimp them closed. Use a sharp knife to cut the old crimp off. The over shot card is good as you could buy a plain one and write the shot size on or buy them already printed with the shot size you are using.

Just rember the more skilled/qualified or work required by the police or FEO (be it non police or not) the more we will pay for it. The only way is up ££££££££

Extra MV is soon lost (assuming same size shot) so pattern and recoil are what counts for me. It is a modern trend for faster and faster MV carts but the laws of physics then give more recoil (unless you go for a heavy gun).

If you speak to George at Propper Cartridges he will tell you how he started ----- With a shed load of money !!!!!!

Hi, Yes have tried them and they were ok, but they were made by Lyalvale Express when I had a few. As they now say they contain Diamond shot they must have very recently changed to Gamebore so they will not be the same. Different powders for a start. Sorry that was not to much help. If it was me I would go for the Gamebore Kent Velocity - fair price and good quality.

The MV is normally only useful to calculate the recoil velocity, OV is more useful, to determine pellet energy and time to target.

I agree about prosecutions, I have never heard of any. Let be honest when did any body knock on a reloaders door and check they did not have more reloading powder than the HSE excemption allow us to hold ? ( "shooting and historical re-enactment" documnent hse web site ) To much legislation spread to far around different legal powers for most reloaders (or ploice ?) to know all the law. Look how the Violient crime reduction bill stoped the sale of primers (except shotgun) to non FAC people - so if you had brass .410 cases and no FAC you were stuffed - but the act does not stop a mate who has an FAC buying them and then passing them on to you. The laws are just so frustration in this country.

I am told by one cartridge manufacture that they do not have insurance - think about it, you have a bad cartridge it goes big bang not little bang and gun gets damaged and may be you - so far so bad. Now you try and claim - can I see the cartridge please ........ oops no it went in the big bang .... sorry your gun must have been weak or faulty, to many years of use, never cleaned it rust or pitted barrels a barrel obstruction etc etc. You may get a good will pay out to keep you quite but any more would take years of expensive legal work and you may still get no more.

Hi Dekers, I like you would like to see the "law as written" but as I understand it the proof house act on behalf of westmister (they were set up by an act of parliament) to police the proof of firearms and ammunition. From what I understand we in the UK are excempt from CIP, because when CIP was created in Europe they had lots of small local cartridge manufactures and the CIP was mandatory, but in the UK we had only a few manufactures so it was not. OK you say all the manufactures are CIP registered - yes they are or they could not export to the EU. CIP gave handloaders an excemption to make ammo forown uses, but the quantity was not define, HSE give us an excemption to store/use the powder and primers. So if you supply mates and do not make a profit you are probably OK, but if you make a profit (a business) then other issues come into play. E.G the Dagerous Goods Act - all class 1. goods (explosive) must have the packaging certified and that costs several thousand pounds to have done. Every cartridge must be calssified as 1.4S - look on the HSE web site under explosives register it is free and look at http://www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/ and http://www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/informati...ssification.htm then look at the LOCEF Explosives database search on 1.4S you will see every cartridge manufacture in the UK with each cartridge they sell listed e.g ELEY VIP and then it's classification e.g. 1.4S Once in is classified (and you have to pay) then and only then can you put it in your certified box and sell it !!! All this is policed by VOSA the police and the proof house - so it is all big brother stuff and costs the industry a lot of money. A lot goes into selling cartridges, not just the manufacture of the cartridge.