JohnfromUK
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Posts posted by JohnfromUK
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The US Democrats selecting Sanders is like the UK Labour party selecting Corbyn. Appeals to a vocal minority - and a minority doesn't win elections.
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14 minutes ago, Scully said:
And literally no less than five minutes ago, I have received an email from the NGO stating that more and more scientists are claiming lead shot in any quantities, no matter how small, DOES have a detrimental effect on ones health!
I thought this had been done to death....with the full support of our shooting organisations! Is it any wonder people are angry?
If this is the case then it must apply to rifle ammunition also, surely.The problem is you get 10 'experts' in a room - and you get 10 different opinions!
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4 minutes ago, Scully said:
The science is there which states that lead shot meat eaten as part of a normal diet does no harm, means nothing if people aren’t persuaded.
That is very true. There was an eminent senior medic/toxicologist Professor on the radio the other day talking about this. He is very happy for himself, his family, grandchildren etc. to all eat game shot with lead, or drink water that has come through lead pipes. He was 100% clear that there is NO harm from eating game shot with lead in the quantities that even someone who ate game several times a week would ingest.
It was his view that over the 150-200 or so years people have been eating game shot with lead there had been no deaths or illnesses reasonably attributed to the lead.
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17 minutes ago, Dibble said:
I would be bloody furious if I'd spent £2000 on that pretty but thinnish walled SxS i looked at last month.
I'm not entirely sure what will happen about this sort of thing. I am in this situation having several old English guns.
I am reasonably convinced that suitable cartridges in 2 1/2" will become available, however - whether they will be 'effective' - of that I'm waiting (and looking forward) to something to convince me. As for my one Damascus barrelled gun, that may have to be retired as an 'active' shooter. We will see what the advice on that is when 2 1/2" ammunition becomes available. I doubt that 'wall thickness' itself will be an issue as pressure is the same I believe. It may be that there is greater risk of bulging at the choke (where there is significant choke in the barrel) due to the lower 'crushability' of the shot. I don't know and it would be wrong to speculate, so I will await advice as and when loads become available.
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1 minute ago, Penelope said:
What is available for 2 1/2" chambered British guns of age not suitable for steel/tungsten, that is at a price point within reach of the 'average' shooter? Please do not say bismuth, it's simply too expensive.
I think you will find - nothing at present, but it is also my burning question.
I have heard that Hull tested 2 1/2" steel loads a while back, but didn't progress with it at the time. Don't know why, but guess lack of demand may have been a reason then.
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1 minute ago, rbrowning2 said:
David basc will confirm what their expectations are.
I think whatever peoples 'expectations' are, what will actually happens is that there will be a gradual transition, with the key driving factors being;
- Availability of suitable non lead cartridges
- Price differentials
- feedback from early adopters
- Increased cost and reduced availability of lead as time progresses
this last may eventually be 'driven' by politics or even legislation if the above don't have the wanted effect in the form of restricting production of lead types, or forcing up the prices of lead types.
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1 minute ago, grahamch said:
I for one find the ethics, morality and sustainability of large scale rearing and release of game birds for shooting more dubious the older l get.
Me too. I also agree about 'getting older' and a number of my friends are feeling the same.
2 minutes ago, grahamch said:the scale of which is becoming unacceptable and along with extreme pheasants will be our downfall.
I have to agree that the high pheasants 'game' I find particularly distasteful where blazing away with huge loads at live quarry at a distance where wounding is more likely than a clean kill seems to be the order of the day in the name of 'sport'. However - this has been done to death and beyond on another thread and so I'll say no more and nor will I 'rise' any further.
Sadly - I don't believe the present action on lead will have much effect on either of these matters.
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8 hours ago, Sco77w said:
Yep, what ☝️Said. I’m hoping to add one to my little colllection at some point.
Just be aware that altering the stock of a Darne to fit can be impossible. This is because they cannot be 'bent' in the usual way due to the way they are attached by a long screw through from the rear of the action. Lengthening, shortening, or shaving a little off can be done, but cast and comb height can be harder.
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4 hours ago, motty said:
Really? Steel isn't that expensive at the moment. Prices would also come down in time.
I agree that prices will 'cross' or at least 'meet' with lead rising in cost as volume falls. Availability of 2 1/2" compatible cartridges is the main thing that will hamper many with game guns.
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1 minute ago, Farmboy91 said:
I watched a video from TGS earlier, I believe Johnny said something about one of the manufacturers possiblily Eley loading a 2 1/2" case.
I think (and hope) it will come - and at a sensible price!
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Just now, rbrowning2 said:
Indeed, basc are suggesting a maximum of 24gm of steel shoot in old guns or use bismuth.
Well, I'm going to wait and see what is around - and what advice my gunsmith friend gives me - but I do most of my shooting at sensible ranges with a 2 3/4" AyA anyway ......... so I suspect I will find a solution
Just now, Pushandpull said:The Vintage Shotguns site (Diggory Haddoke ?) has some constructive thoughts on 2 1?2" guns. I am sure we will get there.
I posted a link to this earlier in this thread (about halfway down page 3 of the thread)
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1 minute ago, rbrowning2 said:
So that’s a YES then, the gun may be suitable for the ammunition but the ammunition is only suitable for normal shooting ranges
...which covers the vast majority of us shooters. The biggest problem (for many of us) at the moment is the older and venerable English guns - which cannot take a 2 3/4" cartridge. At present there is no steel available in 2 1/2" as far as I know - and I have heard that Hull have tried some - so maybe that will come out before the 5 year point?
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I'm guessing that there will be formal advice from the proof houses; what that would be - I don't know. However it might be along the lines of Non HP steel within the proof limits (i.e. case length, weight) through less than ?? choke is suitable without reproof. IF that was to be the case, the insurance should be satisfactory. Please note that this is simply my opinion - not either a gunmakers or insurance or legal experts opinion. I am none of those!
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1 minute ago, Scully said:
Then it's not about the environment. Even the statement regarding single use plastic applies to clay shooters.
The theory I understand is that lead can be hoovered up and 'sifted' on clays grounds. I'm not saying it is either done much - or effective - but that seems to be the thought. I have never heard of it being done at any ground I have shot at ......
3 minutes ago, Scully said:Possibly, but to what end?
I think 'getting at' the fieldsports community is more important to some of their followers than saving any wildlife.
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20 minutes ago, Scully said:
I would be even angrier than I am now if that were not the case.
As I understand it - the proposed 'voluntary ban' only applies to game and field use - NOT clays for which lead will continue.
32 minutes ago, Scully said:However, our cartridge manufacturers need to get their act together now to create affordable and effective cartridges for those minor bores,
It isn't only 'minor bores', but all the 2 1/2" chambered 12 bores (the vast majority of 19th and 20th century English and Scottish 12 bore guns (no doubt any Welsh and Irish guns as well)). I understand from another site that Hull Cartridge have tested steel 2 1/2" in the past (1990s), but didn't at that time follow through with development into production.
21 minutes ago, Scully said:If it's not about the environment then what else is it about?
It could be about pacifying the Packhams, Averys and Co of this world.
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1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:
Will the voluntary ban be on sales or use?
Can't see how it will be on sales if it will still be allowed for clays?
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Just now, lancer425 said:
Not seen it have we stolen his march by any chance. 😀
Link: https://markavery.info/2020/02/24/news-shooting-organisations-bow-to-the-inevitable-on-lead/
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1 minute ago, lancer425 said:
not really. might strugle with the more bulky powders, but typica;l modern powders are ecconomical on room/ casr volume compared to say the types of powder from the days of 2.5 inch "like nobel 60/80/ 82 etc" now they were bulky .
Remember steel has no cushion section required, and any steel wads which have a supper short cush section are there to help them in 70mm cases etc to achieve a good crimp. you could get say a TPS or B&P 35 wad and cut them down so you could get max shot volume and not interfere with the crimp closure. And of course RTO with frangible top disk / card. would give a couple more grams perhaps. RTO in commercial ammo is common, and it could well be used. I think if i had a 2.5 inch i would reload, but i reload most of the time regardless.
OK, thanks. I don't currently reload and hope that something suitable comes along off the shelf. I'm willing (not happy but willing) to stick to 2 3/4" if I have to (in my AyA), but it seems sad that if no 2 1/2" solution is found/made, many many historic and highly serviceable older English guns will need to be retired - or confined to clays. Currently I very occasionally attend a drive where there are duck, and so use my AyA with (2 3/4) bismuth there, but bismuth is currently just too expensive for regular use.
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12 minutes ago, johnphilip said:
Do birds not visit clayground?????
Not if they have any sense!
My local clay ground doesn't (currently) allow steel (possibly due to ricochet risk?)
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4 minutes ago, lancer425 said:
Perhaps no 2.5 inch right now but that will change, and reload is always an option.
I hope so, but I think the possible problem is that there is insufficient room in a 2 1/2" case to get a normal load (weight) of steel. An ouunce of steel is much larger in bulk (volume) than an ounce of lead. For clays I'd be quite happy with 3/4 oz (which I use now in lead), but I doubt it would be any use at all for game.
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2 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:
Question you are using a gun that is not steel proofed and the worst happens for what ever reason and somebody gets injured and they go legal what defence would you have in court for using cartridges the gun was never designed or proofed for?
will the insurance companies pay up or run a mile?
That is a VERY good question. (And one I have always raised when various (often Americans) claim is fine to shoot 2 3/4 cases in 2 1/2 chambers) It is also relevant because there is currently no steel cartridge available in 2 1/2" as far as I know. The other (e.g. bismuth) alternatives are (for me anyway virtually prohibitively) expensive.
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15 minutes ago, RockySpears said:
Really?
https://www.fitfortravel.nhs.uk/advice/general-travel-health-advice/water-purification
General wisdom appears to be that water filters cannot reliably remove viruses.
16 minutes ago, RockySpears said:Yeah, it's just the flu,
No one suggested it was 'just the flu'. It remains a fact that FAR FAR more succumb to flu than this coronavirus. To date 79,640 cases of corona virus with 2625 deaths.
Flu is estimated to have about 1,000,000,000 cases per year (one billion) with between 290,000 and 650,000 deaths. https://www.ifpma.org/global-health-matters/flu-can-cause-up-to-650000-deaths-a-year-globally/
So far in the UK you are more likely to have won the lottery than died from corona virus. I don't claim it isn't an increasing risk, but currently it is a very very low risk in the UK, and all countries are being sensible in trying to decrease the spread.
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Emtec. https://www.noisebreaker.com/
Used for about 30+ years and excellent.
Coronavirus (Covid-19) Is this it?
in Off Topic
Posted
The vast numbers crossing the world for so many reasons, business, tourism, visiting relatives, religious pilgrimages, skiing trips etc. make spread pretty much inevitable. As someone who hates travel (and air travel with a vengeance!) I used to have to do it on business before I retired) I have never understood the attraction. It would be much easier to contain viruses, and there would be less global warming without it, but sadly even arch anti travellers like me have to admit it is here to stay.