DNT

Couldn't agree more OB. Problem is they also don't appear to be dealing with what must be considered national issues such as the mess over the medical report relating to certificates. Some forces are now actively saying no report no certificate. This is completely outside of Home Office guidelines. This needs urgent action from the national organisations who jointly may be able to get somewhere or even consider spending some of the money on a judicial review if necessary. Also the high possibility of the Pochard coming off the quarry list. Now it may be that they are dealing with these issues behind closed doors, but surely some statement would at least let members know what's happening. i am not a current member of the CA, but my club is affiliated, but I get constant email updates from them about what they are up to and they appear very proactive.

KENT WILDFOWLING AND CONSERVATION ASSOCIATION PRESS RELEASE PRESS RELEASE PRESS RELEASE KENT WILDFOWLERS DISAFFILIATE FROM BASC Britain’s largest wildfowling club – with almost 700 members – The Kent Wildfowling and Conservation Association (KWCA) – has voted to disaffiliate from BASC from 1st January, 2018. The vote was agreed unanimously at the club AGM in September The KWCA decision brings to an end an association with WAGBI and then BASC of over 60 years. The club AGM discussed ongoing problems with BASC stretching back over two years. These included BASC disagreements with the KWCA over insurance cover for mutual trading – which BASC eventually conceded – and employers’ liability; the lack of accountability by BASC’s ruling council; the lack of transparency in BASC dealings; BASC continual threatening behaviour towards some members; and most recently a complete debacle in protecting the KWCA’s shooting rights highlighting its inability or unwillingness to have effective negotiations on behalf of the KWCA with both The Crown Estate and Natural England on this matter. Secretary David Thorpe commented, “There was a mixture of anger and sadness at the meeting in a debate that lasted over an hour before the meeting voted to disaffiliate from BASC. The meeting felt that BASC under its current ruling regime no longer speaks for the wildfowling community. “Whilst wildfowlers are a smaller part of BASC these days we are still an important part of the membership with high expectations. Those expectations include BASC giving support where and when clubs need it; being responsive to member enquiries in an open and transparent way, and above all recognising that BASC is a membership organisation accountable to the membership at all times for its acts and omissions. “The KWCA feels let down by the ruling BASC council and senior staff. Under these circumstances the KWCA believes that BASC no longer speaks for the wildfowling community. The KWCA pays BASC almost £40,000 a year in affiliation fees and feels it is getting very little return on that investment. In future the KWCA will invest its members’ money in a better way.” ENDS EDITOR’S NOTE: the KWCA is Britain’s largest wildfowling club with almost 700 members. The club offers wildfowling, rough shooting, pigeon shooting, airgun hunting and target shooting, as well as a growing coarse fishing section. It has a land portfolio of over 13,500 acres across Kent, East Sussex, Essex, Cambridgeshire and Norfolk. Conservation work is being carried out over many of these areas by the KWCA charitable conservation arm Wild Spaces Fund. For membership details go to www.kentwildfowlers.co.uk or call 07836771715

Hi, just to clarify things, the Kent Wildfowlers have rough/pigeon shooting on several areas. We have two areas in Essex and another 6 areas in Kent. Some of the land is arable and some is Woodland. We also have a very active air rifle hunting section with access to several more areas of arable and woodland. In addition we have an air rifle target range. Of course the main part of the package is Wildfowling where we have vast areas available spread over five counties. All of the above is covered by Full Membership and if that's not great value for money I don't know what is, and don't forget the membership includes full BASC membership as well. On the point of overshooting, let me say that all of our shooting is controlled by permits (which despite some rumours to the contrary are free). This allows us to monitor the amount of shooting taking place on all areas. Obviously the main question relating to the amount of quarry on the ground is more dependant on cropping/weather than the number of guns on the ground. There are very few places where you can shoot big numbers every outing, assuming that's what you want to do. To sum up we at KWCA feel we offer an exceptional package to members, particularly if you take advantage of all aspects of the sport available. Take a look at our website for more info or call me for an informal chat. Dave Thorpe (Hon Sec. KWCA 07836 771715).

I never said people should be forced to join BASC or any other organisation for that matter, I simply in this day and age don't understand why they wouldn't, even if it was only for the insurance. Also as Alan posted BASC and others are fighting for all shooters (members or not) and everybody benefits from their success. So please come on show some support! On the point of taking BASC affiliated clubs shooting, I thought I made it clear in my earlier posts that I wouldn't expect to take shooting from anybody, and I have repeatedly said give me evidence of where we have done this. We simply took on shooting rights that were offered to us after the owners and the club failed to reach an agreement and in the case of Brancaster/Burnham purchased rights that were not being used by anyone. This whole issue started after we had stood by watching land leave shooting and going to the conservation bodies in many cases with no challenge from within the sport. Some on here have even stated that they would rather land went to non shooting organisations than have us or I presume any other outside group come into an area. I would have thought all shooters would have realised that was another nail in the coffin. Some say the likes of the RSPB have good relationships with shooting clubs and rightly state examples of shared leases etc to support their point of view. I say again this only happens where the Conservation groups have little alternative or vice versa from the hunting point of view. If you want evidence of what's really going on look no further than the recently publicised rally by LACS at which RSPB were there to support, along with continued blaming of shooters for all persecution of birds. If after all of this you are still happy to cosy up with these groups, then I fear for the future shooting of all hunters. In the meantime BASC, CA and other like minded clubs/groups will continue to stem the flow as best we can including unpalatable alliances with whoever we need to if it's a last resort.

If its arrogance to want to open the sport to as many people as possible whilst at the same time making sure we have controls in place to make sure areas are not overshot instead of guarding a select few policy by putting as many obstacles in the way as possible, then I guess KWCA are arrogant. However given the comments made by a few who appear to only have their own interest at heart and of course that of exclusive clubs who have little real credence to control such matters, I guess we'll carry on and let history judge our actions. There is mention in a post asking if the KWCA would have made these moves if the clubs were BASC affiliated. I personally was unaware that they weren't, however it would make little difference to me although one would hope that affiliated clubs would have a much more open mind. There are also comments on divided we fall. One would have to ask why any Wildfowling club would not be affiliated to BASC in this day and age. Perhaps thats another example of being united in sport.

Anser2 sorry for delay in getting back, family bereavement took me offline. I have had the good fortune to be involved with several aspects of sport clubs from cricket, fishing, game, vermin and of course Wildfowling. Whilst I will freely admit the vast amount of time has gone on work relating to the clubs I am a member of (after all that would be the job of a Committee member), I would not say all of that work was self interest of the particular club. In fact I would say that a large amount would be to further the sport and make it available to as many people as possible and not necessarily with the group I'm working with. Now we all seem to have beat our chests and I hope accepted that we all work for the future of all sports we are involved in I hope we can find some good from each other's points of view. It is difficult to accept change, but it is even more difficult to accept unwarranted criticism and deliberate misinformation and accusations which are completely unfounded. I trust Alan's post settled the BASC comments and I am pleased to see one gentleman big enough to apologise and withdraw his post. But I feel this gentlemans comments and others came about from deliberate mischief making from as Alan put it "people who should know better". I have said on many occasions KWCA is not trying to take away anyone's shooting and if you examine the facts has never done so. We do not have a secret agenda to take over Norfolk or anywhere else for that matter. We do not have an inside link to special information within BASC or any other organisation. We do pursue land opportunities but not at the expense of a club that still holds the shooting rights. We will do all in our power to stop land leaving shooting. We will offer assistance to others where we can in an effort to help them hold onto land or expand. We will do all we can to make Wildfowling and other shooting available to as many as possible whilst working within the constraints of numbers wishing to partake in the sport in a given area. Finally we will not apologise to a few mischief makers who seem to be more intent on their exclusive holdings than the future of the sport in general.

Being a Director of Companies is not a crime, I said I have no idea of any Company within BASC linked to KWCA and that's because there isen't one. I do not know the role of BASC Direct, but I believe there are several Directors from within BASC. As for all other companies, if you do a basic search for Directors all of their directorships will show. That's the law of the land. Are you so naive to believe that if anything untoward was going on we would allow ourselves to be so open. If that were the case we would use wives or friends to throw people off the scent. All of the Companies you have searched are genuine trading Companies with boards of Directors including independents where required. Let's not start the paranoia again.

Jono 4, if individuals wish to transfer their common rights to any other individual, club or group exactly where is that taking shooting from another club? We have examined the ownership from across the Country of other Common Rights holders in Norfolk in previous posts. Many of these rights are not being exercised at present. Anybody can and have bought them when available. What's the problem?

One of the most important points to consider, is the policy one of last resort. Several companies offer this type of policy. In essence this means that should you need to claim you will need to evidence that no other policy you have including family and business policies cannot deal with the issue. Only then will this type of policy kick in. Also I think it is important to look at the rest of the package of a membership like BASC which we at KWCA consider the best all round available.

Despite posting what was to be my last post on this thread this morning, I have been asked by both the owner and the KWCA Committee to remind everyone that only KWCA members and the 6 Common Rights Holders have permission to shoot on Thornham Marshes. Anybody else out there with a gun will be deemed to be committing armed trespass and the owner has stated he will prosecute. Good luck to you all tomorrow.

I'm really sorry to hear of your problems with NE. I hope they are sorted soon. Perhaps now people will see why KWCA tackle NE head on, the more you give the more they want. Don't forget who's right behind them pushing as hard as they can, yes you guessed it, the Conservation section. Make no mistake they are out to stop it all. Good luck with your issues.

I was contacted at first by several wildfowlers ( including a number of members off this forum ) that your club had been in contact Officially or unofficially with a N Norfolk landowner who already has a club shooting its ground. Informing the clubs officers that was later confirmed with the landowner. Given the way your clubs track record in operating the Wide Spaces Fund into fooling people into thinking they are donating money for conservation when it is in part used to bid for shooting rights I know who I believe. Anser, whether you believe me or not is becoming less of a concern to me with every day that passes, we are continuing to get many messages of support from all areas of the Country. But in the interest of fairness and transparency here is the information to refute your claim. We have made enquiries about three areas of land in Norfolk: Thornham, Salthouse and Snettisham, all offered on the open market. We were successful with Thornham, made a substantial bid for Snettisham (after discussions with the local club) but the land was taken off the market, and we did not bid for Salthouse. Salthouse was eventually lost to shooting for ever. During this period what did you and others in the area do? All three could have been lost to shooting if left to some locals! We were offered Rights in Common at CL65 which we have purchased. In Cambridgeshire we have made enquiries for 6 areas: four of which were on the open market, two offered to us privately. Of those we have acquired four. We have also discussed two other areas on the open market with local clubs and have stood aside to allow them a free run. The truth of the matter is we work with others when they ask. We bid for land if it is on the open market, or if it is offered to us. We have not bid for land held by other clubs. On the point of misleading people about where their money goes, I suggest you pay a visit to Kent and see the work that has been carried out on several sites. This work has cost thousands of pounds and has bought areas neglected for years under earlier stewardships back into favourable conditions and preserved these wonderful wild places. What have you and others been doing all this time ( apart from shoot geese I mean)? We have formed a company praised for its conservation work carried out in a very short space of time and been accepted by the Charity Commission to continue with the work in a much stronger position than ever. You on the other hand make accusations (unsubstantiated) about the clubs approaches to others and worst accuse us of near fraud. If I may be so bold may I suggest you are very careful with your unsubstantiated accusations. We at KWCA take our good name and reputation very seriously, and before others start jumping to your defence with shouts of more legal threats from KWCA , let me make it very clear, it is meant to be friendly advice which I trust you will take. We at KWCA have done everything in our power to explain our position, why we do things the way we do and our vision for the future. I said earlier that the messages of support continue to come in and membership continues to grow. On that basis we have decided to take no further part in this thread and I ask all KWCA members involved to do the same. To those of you who have supported us on the Forum or privately, I say thank you. To everybody else I hope you now better understand our thinking and position, and as I have also said before, we're happy for history to judge our actions and the fact that under our watch there will always be somewhere for people to join and have access to shooting and we will fight to keep land away from the protectionist with every last penny available.

Jono, I don't think I said Thornham or Brancaster were not well managed, frankly I have no idea how well or badly most clubs are run. But I do know how Kent isi run. We are a fully inclusive club with vast amounts of shooting for everyone ( sorry boasting again), although we prefer to call it advertising to the world what we have achieved and pointing out what we can offer to shooters. If we are so bad why is it that people want to be apart of it. I'll explain that to you as well, people like to be attached to success. It was pointed out to me twice today that there are half a dozen people on here who are happy to slag off KWCA on any issue. Fine carry on. It will make no difference in the end. We will continue to buy/ lease land that we are offered or that comes onto the open market, we will continue to increase membership and although it is disappointing that some of you hold these views and don't want to be involved, in the end it makes no difference because there are far more who do, they are the ones who have tried and failed to join various clubs who are so restrictive in their membership criteria that you have more chance of winning the lottery than getting into one of these clubs. But don't despair KWCA are here and ready to deal with anyone wishing to curtail the shooting of Wildfowl.