mattslaptop247 Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) I have just bought a gun for £30, looks like an old english boxlock. It has nice dark wood, but also has a wooden stock extension and sleeved barrels. I am of the thinking that sleeved barrels are expensive to have done, so am guessing that at some point this may have been an expensive gun. Right now its in a bit of a state, but am going to see what I can do with it! The saftey catch is manual and has a gold letter S. It's double trigger, none ejector. I will add some pics later but I will describe the proof marks now marked P.V BNP with a crown above x with a star above it marked for 2 1/2 inch cartridges star above letter R a mark that looks like an upside down mobile phone signal indicator sleeved oval with a crown on top, containing the letters E with a LG underneath, and below that a star (all of this is in the oval) crossed swords with x on the left and a b on the right and looks like an I or L underneath Where the barrels have been sleeved you can just see the end of a makers name, ending in S, which is quite bold and fancy. The barrels are also marked with a crown over BP and the letter O Any help is much appreciated! Edited November 19, 2009 by mattslaptop247 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyp Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 the crown with BNP below indicates it was proofed in Birmingham since 1954. The crown with BP means it's blackpowerd proofed in Birmingham. Are you sure it's a star above the R and not a crown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 The "PV" is almost certainly "BV", which means it has been viewed by the Birmingham proof house. The BP will be a Birmingham black powder proof. ZB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Hi ZB its def a PV, its quite large compared to the rest of the marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Fair enough, thats a new one on me. ZB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I will try to get some pics later, but its hard gettin the camera to focus that close up lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Some of the proof marks sound more Belgian than English tbh. It could be a Belgian gun that has been proofed for nitro over here. EDIT: A bit of digging later I am 100% sure that the ELG and the PV are Belgian, possibly the Liege proof house. ZB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I will try to get some pics later, but its hard gettin the camera to focus that close up lol If it's a digital camera, turn on macro mode. that should allow the camera to focus really close up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyp Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Some of the proof marks sound more Belgian than English tbh. It could be a Belgian gun that has been proofed for nitro over here. EDIT: A bit of digging later I am 100% sure that the ELG and the PV are Belgian, possibly the Liege proof house. ZB the PV could well be Belgium and they have a proof thats a big R with a little crown above it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 The marks are originally belgian and then proofed at birmingham BNP british nitro proof , The belgian marks are PV = voluntary semi smokeless proof , star over X and star over R are inspectors marks , the upside down antenna mark is the Perron mark a final black powder proof and the ELG in an oval with crown and star are a final black powder proof mark for barrels , the english marks are , crown over bp = birmingham proof , crown over bp in an o = definitive proof not english make , The crossed swords and letters are a date stamp for 1972 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Hi, Belgian maybe. Does the telephone symbol thingy look vaguely like the Eiffel Tower? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Hi, Belgian maybe. Does the telephone symbol thingy look vaguely like the Eiffel Tower?Cheers Yes, well a bit! What do we think about the re-sleeving. It would cost a fortune to have done, so am thinking this must have been a pricey bit of kit in its day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/sty.../attach_add.png The perron mark belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 Hi, I hope Andy comes back in on this one: We've all learnt something this evening, thanks, mate. The interesting thing is that, unless I've missed it, there are no UK re-proof marks. As Belgian proof has been acceptable in the UK for ages there would have been no need to have it proofed on import. Consequently, I would imagine that the UK proof followed the sleeving. I don't know about the date stamp, but if this is the date of the UK proof, then yes, it would have been quite expensive to have the sleeving done. Other than to say that it would be unusual, but not unheard of, for "a pricey bit of kit" to be a non ejector, I wouldn't have a clue on value either, unless sentimental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/sty.../attach_add.png The perron mark belgium Andy, cant get the link to work mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 I think you're right andy, when it was resleeved this would result in it being re-proofed. If it's marked up for black powder originally, when did this go out of fashion? It might give me a rough idea of date. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Have a look at the mark a star above R and see if it may be a crown above R if so that is a british reproof mark it cannot be a belgian mark as they use that for rifled arms only, Also look for a single letter stamp on its own plain or with an underscore this will be the original belgian proof date stamp . http://www.shotguns.se/html/belgium.html Edited November 19, 2009 by Andy H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) Have a look at the mark a star above R and see if it may be a crown above R if so that is a british reproof mark it cannot be a belgian mark as they use that for rifled arms only, Also look for a single letter stamp on its own plain or with an underscore this will be the original belgian proof date stamp . http://www.shotguns.se/html/belgium.html It does look like a star, bu it is quite small and hard to tell, suppose it could be a crown! The only letter by itself I can see is the letter O on the barrels I will borrow a better camera tomorrow to get a good pic of the proof marks, even with macro its blurred Edited November 19, 2009 by mattslaptop247 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted November 19, 2009 Report Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) If the letter o is the date code then it was originally proofed in 1936 and PV anywhere on it means nitro proof. Edited November 19, 2009 by Andy H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 proof marks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2009 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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