Bleeh Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Near long stratton. Shooting in the day over ferrets, with possibility of lamping in the night. (even roost shooting, but we'll see) Must have insurance. For lamping, must have 4x4 and lamp, open FAC or a good air-rifle. Rabbit numbers are unreal. First come first served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 is it imperative to have a 4x4? can we not walk and lamp? has the land been surveyed by the constabulary? if so we wont need an open licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldypurple Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 i would love to come , but unfortunately its too short of notice Maybe another time if you can give abit more advance notice Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted November 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 i would love to come , but unfortunately its too short of notice Maybe another time if you can give abit more advance notice Andy Sorry, this is because my regular dropped out. And with the lamp, we can work something out, walk and lamp would be fine I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 just sent pm, do you have fac? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 would jump at the chance as have all the request but working 2moz nite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
togger Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 is it imperative to have a 4x4? can we not walk and lamp? has the land been surveyed by the constabulary? if so we wont need an open licence. Correct me if i'm wrong, but if you are shooting your FAC rifle you can only use it on land that's on your ticket if it's a closed ticket. If you have an open ticket you can shoot on any land you have permission and you deem fit, whether it's been surveyed or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjobill Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 you are wrong you may shoot on any land THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED FOR YOUR CALIBER BY THE CHIEF OFFICER OF POLICE so any land thats been checked BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
togger Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 you are wrong you may shoot on any land THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED FOR YOUR CALIBER BY THE CHIEF OFFICER OF POLICE so any land thats been checked BB It depends on the force issuing the ticket. As you say a closed ticket will give authority to use your rifle on land specified or approved by the police for that calibre weapon. My understanding was that some forces, however, just allow on land specified, until you get your open ticket. Just didn't want anyone falling foul. Always a good idea to check the wording on your ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 (edited) you are wrong you may shoot on any land THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED FOR YOUR CALIBER BY THE CHIEF OFFICER OF POLICE so any land thats been checked BB It depends on the force issuing the ticket. As you say a closed ticket will give authority to use your rifle on land specified or approved by the police for that calibre weapon. My understanding was that some forces, however, just allow on land specified, until you get your open ticket. Just didn't want anyone falling foul. Always a good idea to check the wording on your ticket. the force up here says the same as togger. so not as wrong as you say. al Edited November 30, 2009 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
togger Posted December 1, 2009 Report Share Posted December 1, 2009 Guys, Just a clarification on the last couple of posts. I've just got off the phone with our local \police firearms admin (to put my own mind at rest) and they have stipulated that if you are on a closed certificate you can only shoot on land specified on your certificate with your gun. If you are on open certificate you can shoot anywhere you have permission, the decision on whether it's safe with that gun is down to you. If you are a guest with someone who has permission on land and you are on a closed certificate you would only be permitted to shoot their gun whilst supervised. Hope that clears it up. Togger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) Guys, Just a clarification on the last couple of posts. If you are a guest with someone who has permission on land and you are on a closed certificate you would only be permitted to shoot their gun whilst supervised. Hope that clears it up. Togger hi togger,as i said in my post.different areas give differing definitions.. the part you put above is not the same as here. i put in for a .222c/f and i was named as a guest with a guy who has permission to shoot on this land..i have closed ticket and i can shoot on this land using my own .222 c/f.. so not quite cut and shut. always best to check with your own firearms force if anything is unclear.safer and you stay legal. al ps,togger,what area are you in? Edited December 3, 2009 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
togger Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 hi togger,as i said in my post.different areas give differing definitions.. the part you put above is not the same as here. i put in for a .222c/f and i was named as a guest with a guy who has permission to shoot on this land..i have closed ticket and i can shoot on this land using my own .222 c/f.. so not quite cut and shut. always best to check with your own firearms force if anything is unclear.safer and you stay legal. al ps,togger,what area are you in? I'm in the Derbyshire area matey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonT Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 It must be area related, I dont have an open cert and I can shoot anywhere with the landowners permission, as long as the land has my calibre allowed on it.. All I do is phone the firearms team and ask if the land has been checked. I dont have anything on my cert stating what land I have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 same here Simon the old type closed tickets seem to be being phased out not heard of anyone with one in ages. However in this case the reason it was asked for an open ticket is presumably as the land hasn't been cleared. So even someone with the "semi" open ticket won't be ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Guys, Just a clarification on the last couple of posts. I've just got off the phone with our local \police firearms admin (to put my own mind at rest) and they have stipulated that if you are on a closed certificate you can only shoot on land specified on your certificate with your gun. If you are on open certificate you can shoot anywhere you have permission, the decision on whether it's safe with that gun is down to you. If you are a guest with someone who has permission on land and you are on a closed certificate you would only be permitted to shoot their gun whilst supervised. Hope that clears it up. Togger Totally incorrect...Maybe different interpretation in police forces but it stands like this....... On a first application or in other words in your first five years, you cannot as a certificate holder survey land which has not been cleared by police, a benefit that you can do when you are on a open ticket. Very few open tickets issued these days even with bundles of land, only people who really get them are bona fide pest controllers. So, example 1.....closed certificate holder shoots one farm which he had his FAC issed under. He then gets permission on the farm next door. Land is already cleared by police-Go ahead and shoot Example 2) Open certificate holder asked to go sort out a fox on an uncleared piece of land which is tricky. Its his call and on his head be it-Go ahead and shoot. There are many people out who seem to think that when they are granted FAC when under these conditions of a closed certificate they cannot shoot anywhere else other than where they have the ticket passed on. Farms which you list on your application are only to establish Good reason for ownership of that particular firearm. If I put down everywhere I shoot on an FAC rec-cert it would be continue on another page. I just put down the one farm and that is it. There are a lot of people who get an FAC and all they want is an open ticket becuase they think it gives you more freedom. The only freedom between an open and closed ticket is the time and cost of a phone call to local plod to check if land is cleared or not and then if it ist'nt, in Suffolk it is normally only a couple of days for Rimfire and .17. Only takes a little longer when you go to .243 and over because they have to look at it a little more closely. Forget about asking the police first if you don't believe me, ring BASC or another similar organization and they will tell you straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross16689 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Quote "On a first application or in other words in your first five years, you cannot as a certificate holder survey land which has not been cleared by police, a benefit that you can do when you are on a open ticket. Very few open tickets issued these days even with bundles of land, only people who really get them are bona fide pest controllers." I'd have to disagree with that, I have a fully open certificate for .270 on first grant age 19, I've double checked with the firearms department and I'm ok to shoot anywhere I deem safe and I am in no way a pest controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) Totally incorrect...Maybe different interpretation in police forces but it stands like this....... On a first application or in other words in your first five years, you cannot as a certificate holder survey land which has not been cleared by police, a benefit that you can do when you are on a open ticket. Very few open tickets issued these days even with bundles of land, only people who really get them are bona fide pest controllers. that is incorrect,as my next line will show and as stated by another poster,you can get an open ticket on first grant and you can get open ticket before the 5 years is up,so they must be bona fide shooters of vermin too..so as open ticket holders in the first 5 years,they can can survey land and shoot over it..you are not stating the closed or open ticket part for this to be clear So, example 1.....closed certificate holder shoots one farm which he had his FAC issed under. He then gets permission on the farm next door. Land is already cleared by police-Go ahead and shoot Example 2) Open certificate holder asked to go sort out a fox on an uncleared piece of land which is tricky. Its his call and on his head be it-Go ahead and shoot. not quite like that,they show good judgement and experience using firearms on land.they asess the risk`s involved in new land. There are many people out who seem to think that when they are granted FAC when under these conditions of a closed certificate they cannot shoot anywhere else other than where they have the ticket passed on. the point of closed is to restrict you,to your rifle choice and land on closed ticket,so if i said to can i come and shoot with you on your permission with invite,i would not be able to do it,i would need a letter of permission to say i was doing this and send proof into the fac department,so that i can then shoot with you.until then i`m limited to what permission letters i send in,be they my permission or me named as guest on land passed for the caliber i use.so they cannot do what you state Farms which you list on your application are only to establish Good reason for ownership of that particular firearm. If I put down everywhere I shoot on an FAC rec-cert it would be continue on another page. I just put down the one farm and that is it. mmmm...not that simple,just because you have loads of land,does not give you the right to open fac..many have tried the lots of land permission and failed to get open fac ,you must have asked for open or got it on first application? There are a lot of people who get an FAC and all they want is an open ticket because they think it gives you more freedom. The only freedom between an open and closed ticket is the time and cost of a phone call to local plod to check if land is cleared or not and then if it ist'nt, in Suffolk it is normally only a couple of days for Rimfire and .17. Only takes a little longer when you go to .243 and over because they have to look at it a little more closely. you forget the invitation shoots,,a closed fac holder cannot do it,so no call can help,only a permission letter,plus differing time from area to area for land clearance,some take weeks or longer,something closed fac holders find frustating at times,open ticket holder has no such waiting time,so big difference Forget about asking the police first if you don't believe me, ring BASC or another similar organization and they will tell you straight. i would rather ring my local fac department,as you can stir up problems for yourself,it has happened to fac holders,so that advice i would avoid as basc do not issue fac certificates,nor do they do land clearance ,advice from basc is a different thing. Edited December 4, 2009 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) i would rather ring my local fac department,as you can stir up problems for yourself,it has happened to fac holders,so that advice i would avoid as basc do not issue fac certificates,nor do they do land clearance ,advice from basc is a different thing. All I am saying is that it is unlikely you will get an open ticket on a first application, and even if you ask for one you may struggle.As a rule, after your first application has passed and you have not asked for it to be opened up, it will be anyway. In essence what I said above is correct, you have merely re-iterated with slight disagreement in certain areas of what I have stated. I am not a closed certificate holder, open from the onset many moons ago- But then again they were differing times. I have been through all this with my lad who has just gone for his. Anyway, living in Suffolk we get very few problems with-in this county as an issueing force as they really are very amicable/sensible the majority of the time. For example, despite the rules as they are, Norfolk constabularly do not like certificate holders with an open ticket shooting on uncleared land- one way or another. Its a case you are allowed to do it but they still do-not like it. Its interpretation between forces, But I still stand by what I say.....If you are an FAC holder on a closed certificate and the land is cleared, providing you have the landowners permission (and no it does not have to be in writing nor sent in to the department either for acceptance) You can lawfully shoot that land as a closed certificate holder. Just been through it all as I said earlier for my lad, and that was what the force said. Edited December 4, 2009 by starlight32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 All I am saying is that it is unlikely you will get an open ticket on a first application, and even if you ask for one you may struggle.As a rule, after your first application has passed and you have not asked for it to be opened up, it will be anyway. In essence what I said above is correct, you have merely re-iterated with slight disagreement in certain areas of what I have said. I am not a closed certificate holder, open from the onset over 20 years ago- But then again they were differing times. I have been through all this with my lad who has just gone for his. Anyway, living in Suffolk we get very problems with-in this county as an issueing force as they really are very amicable/sensible the majority of the time. thats the difference,,area that you shoot in...your statement was only correct for you,not for all.. the thing is,no two places are the same for fac holders and they get told differing things..they will get your version ,mine and many others.only those in the posters area can actually really give good advice to the person asking but,everyone likes to try and help in giving their personal opininoin,hence the i`m coreect and your not debate. i`m closed fac holder but,shoot with open fac holder.the only difference between us,is our age.. pity the same hymn sheet is not used for all but,it ain`t. you should find it different for newer applications but,your son will be different in the fact,he has you as an open ticket holder to help and guide your son on his way ,others are not so lucky and get resrictions put upon them...not a dig,just the differnce in things fac. many are getting mentored now for fac air or 22lr..go figure that one..some need it but,mentoring is becoming more the norm on first time application. the debate will continue for a long time. al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) Its interpretation between forces, But I still stand by what I say.....If you are an FAC holder on a closed certificate and the land is cleared, providing you have the landowners permission (and no it does not have to be in writing nor sent in to the department either for acceptance) You can lawfully shoot that land as a closed certificate holder. Just been through it all as I said earlier for my lad, and that was what the force said. hi again,sorry if you think i`m getting at you but,i`m not and i`m just trying to show the difference and how confusing this can be for fac holders or new applicants for fac... the above statement will not work where i shoot with closed ticket.. we have to send in a letter of permission as closed fac holder and if land is passed,then you can shoot on it,if not passed you have to wait till it is. no permission letter,no shooting..see the difference. i have verbal on a permission,i cannot shoot it with fac,only sub 12ftlbs,as my fac department require a letter of permission and then they will check the land if it is not passed..confused.. see the difference in yours to mine..hell i need a drink after this,, al Edited December 4, 2009 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) thats the difference,,area that you shoot in...your statement was only correct for you,not for all..the thing is,no two places are the same for fac holders and they get told differing things..they will get your version ,mine and many others.only those in the posters area can actually really give good advice to the person asking but,everyone likes to try and help in giving their personal opininoin,hence the i`m coreect and your not debate. i`m closed fac holder but,shoot with open fac holder.the only difference between us,is our age.. pity the same hymn sheet is not used for all but,it ain`t. you should find it different for newer applications but,your son will be different in the fact,he has you as an open ticket holder to help and guide your son on his way ,others are not so lucky and get resrictions put upon them...not a dig,just the differnce in things fac. many are getting mentored now for fac air or 22lr..go figure that one..some need it but,mentoring is becoming more the norm on first time application. the debate will continue for a long time. al Al, Reading what you have said you are indeed correct, it is the different interpretation between forces. However this is where FAC differs from SGC does'nt it? Restrictions can be placed on an FAC at the will of the chief of police's choosing. I do fully understand the grief some individuals are having with FAC at the present, and to be honest I think it will soon be a lot worse for all, whether you have had one for a long while or not. Edited December 4, 2009 by starlight32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight32 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 thats the difference,,area that you shoot in...your statement was only correct for you,not for all..the thing is,no two places are the same for fac holders and they get told differing things..they will get your version ,mine and many others.only those in the posters area can actually really give good advice to the person asking but,everyone likes to try and help in giving their personal opininoin,hence the i`m coreect and your not debate. i`m closed fac holder but,shoot with open fac holder.the only difference between us,is our age.. I have just looked at your profile and I was expecting a slip of a youth pity the same hymn sheet is not used for all but,it ain`t. you should find it different for newer applications but,your son will be different in the fact,he has you as an open ticket holder to help and guide your son on his way ,others are not so lucky and get resrictions put upon them...not a dig,just the differnce in things fac. many are getting mentored now for fac air or 22lr..go figure that one..some need it but,mentoring is becoming more the norm on first time application. the debate will continue for a long time. al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albob Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) Al, Reading what you have said you are indeed correct, it is the different interpretation between forces. However this is where FAC differs from SGC does'nt it? Restrictions can be placed on an FAC at the will of the chief of police's choosing. I do fully understand the grief some individuals are having with FAC at the present, and to be honest I think it will soon be a lot worse for all, whether you have had one for a long while or not. thats the thing we both where trying to get across but,not always easy to write down in a few sentences.we are both correct really but,only for our own circumstances or force.. me a wippersnapper? nar,i spell to well. (note spell,not smell) good debate and enjoyed it. yes,shotgun is less hassle to get thanks al ps,sorry to op,some things do off on a tangent.. Edited December 4, 2009 by albob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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