.222/.223 for vermin?

[Mr_Logic]

Yes there is quite a big difference.

 

Cases are very cheap, IIRC I got about 500 Prvi for about 80 quid, not the best but perfectly OK for the job.

 

I use 12.3 gr Hodgdon H110, which I pay about £35 a tub and get 550-odd rounds. I work it out to about 28p a shot. 223 uses more powder and more expensive bullets (although it might be parity, just that I stocked up with Hornet stuff last time round...) so it does cost a bit more.

 

That gives me about 3075fps and a 1/2" group @ 100 yards, and lots of dead bunny rabbits.

[wildfowler.250]

Yes there is quite a big difference.

 

Cases are very cheap, IIRC I got about 500 Prvi for about 80 quid, not the best but perfectly OK for the job.

 

I use 12.3 gr Hodgdon H110, which I pay about £35 a tub and get 550-odd rounds. I work it out to about 28p a shot. 223 uses more powder and more expensive bullets (although it might be parity, just that I stocked up with Hornet stuff last time round...) so it does cost a bit more.

 

That gives me about 3075fps and a 1/2" group @ 100 yards, and lots of dead bunny rabbits.

 

thanks for that!

 

so thats around £14 for 50,(basically the same as the HMR). Would you say that the hornet is worth it? I've been told you really have to reload for it to get the best out of it. So if your shooting quite a few rabbits with it, that's quite a lot of time spent making up bullets when you could just buy some HMR rounds and go shooting.

 

I greatly appreciate your input as I like the sound of the hornet but im not so sure of the practicality

[Mr_Logic]

The Hornet is definitely worth it, if you're shooting foxes as well. If you're not, I still rate it for longer ranges than HMR.

 

In terms of reloading time, the irritating bit is the brass prep - resizing, depriming, cleaning and trimming brass takes a while. My solution was 500 new cases, so you don't have to do it all that often. Once the cases are primed, I leave them in a cat food box ready for use.

 

To turn a ready-primed case into a live round takes all of 5 seconds. Hornet is great from this point of view as it uses fine powders which meter really well in a powder thrower, so you don't need to weigh each charge - just set the thrower and then keep going. 100 rounds is a very easy thing - including putting them away and setting thrower, can be done in an hour. I don't consider Hornet arduous.

[njc110381]

I'm with Fister on that one, the Hornet is a cracking little round. It will give you more range on Foxes and the best bunny shot I ever took with mine was 250 yards. I used to reload mine for the cost of HMR rounds and as others have mentioned it works well with fine powders that meter well from a thrower. That means you don't have to weigh the loads so you can chuck them together pretty fast. A basic hand press will have enough push to do the cases too so you can sit on the sofa and load them while you're watching the TV!

 

How much do you want to spend? If you don't mind spending a bit on the gun and fancy a challenge with some home loading then the .17 Ackley Hornet I just bought myself is a great rifle. I can shoot bunnies at the front end (heart/lung shot) and as long as they're side on it doesn't ruin them. I'm using the 25grn V-Max in it and I think the bullets are tough enough at these speeds not to completely blow up. I'm not sure what its maximum range is but it's not likely to be any less than the .22 Hornet, my best bunny so far is 240 yards with this one!

 

Down side to the .17AH is cost of the rifle and the reloading isn't that simple either. Once you're set up it's wonderful but starting off can be challenging!

 

I had a .223 once. Body shots just destroyed the bunnies! It's a good round if you don't mind wasting meat and can be reloaded for maybe 1/3 more than the Hornet (simply because it uses double the amount of powder).

[Frenchieboy]

Whilst I have no interest in changing from my 17HMR as it does everything I ask of it I am finding this thread very interesting and educational. To be honest I prefer to just go to my RFD and buy my ammo and get straight out shooting, but I can understand the added satisfaction that might come from loading your own ammo!

[albob]

i have .222 for vermin and the occassional fox..hold 600/buy 500.

seen rabbits shot with 223 and 243 and you can still get a meal out of them afterwards.

if your doing pestcontrol like me,then their is no worries about ther state of the rabbit for eating.

varies choices have been mentioned and it is down to what you require from it.

good luck with your choice,it ain`t easy.

al

[wildfowler.250]

Thanks for all the responses! All the different options are very interesting

 

 

Correct me if im wrong but my calculations are,( apprximately..)

 

 

17HMR - about 28p a shot- £14 a box

 

.22 Hornet - also about 28p a shot and extra fox range

 

.223 - about 37p a shot,(9p more than the hornet but gives you a better range and can be used for roe).

.... -> his is assuming .223 costs 1/3 more than the hornet to reload?

 

 

 

 

So realistically the .223 does everything,(if a bit much on rabbits)

 

 

How much would I be looking at if I was to buy all the reloading gear for the .223?

 

 

Thanks again for all the input!

 

 

ATB

[Dekers]

Thanks for all the responses! All the different options are very interesting

 

 

Correct me if im wrong but my calculations are,( apprximately..)

 

 

17HMR - about 28p a shot- £14 a box

 

.22 Hornet - also about 28p a shot and extra fox range

 

.223 - about 37p a shot,(9p more than the hornet but gives you a better range and can be used for roe).

.... -> his is assuming .223 costs 1/3 more than the hornet to reload?

 

 

 

 

So realistically the .223 does everything,(if a bit much on rabbits)

 

 

How much would I be looking at if I was to buy all the reloading gear for the .223?

 

 

Thanks again for all the input!

 

 

ATB

 

Roe in Scotland ONLY!! CWD and Muntjac in England a Wales.

 

I am primarily involved in Pest Control, so the state of my bunnies is of no concern to me, I shoot so many in a year I get more good ones than I can eat simply because of the law of averages!! I took another bunny yesterday with the .223, 55g HP, this too destroyed it, killed and paunched and ALL 4 legs shattered in one shot, there was little more than skin and shattered bone left.

 

I have hit bunnies with .223 55g HP and 55g SP before and they have been fine, actually, on one occassion when I hit a bunny with a 55g HP I couldn't find the in or out until I skinned it, so you do not destroy them every time. Even so, few if any would consider a .223 a bunny calibre!!

 

As a matter of interest I have also hit bunnies with .308 150g SP. Head on its a bit of a mess but sideways it's like something out out the cartoons, hold them up and there is just a very big hole all the way through!

 

I do potentially have a bit of a gap between my .22WMR and my .223 which the Hornet would fit well. I have considered getting one but so far I have not found that I have any particular problems in this middle ground.

 

Factory ammo prices are all over the place, but .17HMR is still available for less than 28p if you look around.

 

About 18 months ago whilst shooting on the borders of Devon and Cornwall I found a great little RFD with old stock, and a pal I was with got Hornet for silly cheap old money.

 

.223 55g HP Wolf can still be found for 20p each if you know where to look, CHEAPER than HMR or Hornet, I kid you not!

 

So, as you can see factory is all over the place.

 

I don't reload, but know those that do, the savings are good usually but I have been truly surprised by the increase in accuracy as well!!

 

ATB!!

Edited January 24, 2010 by Dekers

[Dekers]

As a quick aside to all of this, I have 500, Wolf .223 55g HP, still factory sealed available for £100 TOTAL. Yep 20p each!!!

 

Point to make is that this is an innexpensive hunting round, it is not an Olympic target round.

 

Tell me where you can get any centrefire HP ammo for 20p, hopefully you get the point!

 

Works well in my Tikka T3 Stainless, I just have a lot of the stuff!!

 

PM me if you are interested, obviously you need the right paperwork!

 

http://www.wolfammo.com/index.php?option=c...1&Itemid=12

 

Cheers

[wildfowler.250]

Thanks for the reply!

 

 

After a lot of thought,(price aside) there is no advantage of the hornet over the .223 as far as I can see. I am in Scotland so the Roe part isnt an issue

 

 

Unfortunately, the cheapest HMR ammo I can get is £11 pound a box..remingtons,(group 1 inch at 50 yards as opposed to all the bullet holes touching ) Is it possible to get HMR ammo posted or sent to your RFD. And if so does anyone know where you can pick up cheap Hornady or winchesters

 

 

Im interested to find out where a hornet would fit in between a .22mag and a .223? I would have thought you'd be pretty much sorted!

 

ps: that .223 55g HP Wolf at that price sounds sweet!

 

 

 

Many thanks again,(im just trying to pick people's brains rather than trying to start a caliber arguement).

 

 

 

 

 

ATB

[Mr_Logic]

If you're going to shoot roe, then get a 223 and be done. Yes your rabbits will be blown to bits, but in all seriousness - of the amount you shoot, how many do you eat?

 

With a 223 for deer, I would definitely reload. While the Wolf ammo does work in some rifles (I've seen it work in Deker's, but I've put it through 3 and it's been awful) it can be a nightmare if not.

 

I have about 400 of the things spare, and will happily chuck them in if you buy Deker's! As an aside, a very accurate round can be made by removing the bullet and adding a 55gr Nosler ballistic tip. They're slow (3000fps) but my old Remington put them into a one-hole group at 100 yards.

[macca]

Hi,

havent read all the posts in this thread but will add the comment that the 221 fireball is a far superior cartridge to the hornet. Uses around 18 grains of powder to push a 35 gn vmax at over 3500fps. It is rimless and hence headspaces on the shoulder rather than the rim, has a better defined neck and thicker brass than the hornet and is far more accurate.

Cheers

Edited January 24, 2010 by macca

[Dekers]

Thanks for the reply!

 

 

After a lot of thought,(price aside) there is no advantage of the hornet over the .223 as far as I can see. I am in Scotland so the Roe part isnt an issue

 

 

Unfortunately, the cheapest HMR ammo I can get is £11 pound a box..remingtons,(group 1 inch at 50 yards as opposed to all the bullet holes touching ) Is it possible to get HMR ammo posted or sent to your RFD. And if so does anyone know where you can pick up cheap Hornady or winchesters :look:

 

 

Im interested to find out where a hornet would fit in between a .22mag and a .223? I would have thought you'd be pretty much sorted!

 

ps: that .223 55g HP Wolf at that price sounds sweet!

 

 

 

Many thanks again,(im just trying to pick people's brains rather than trying to start a caliber arguement).

 

 

 

 

 

ATB

 

I am pretty much sorted, and I've been able to deal with all the problems I have faced so far

 

I have 7 different FAC tools and several SGC tools, but .22WMR=320ft lb (ish), and .223=1200-1300ft lb (ish),

so a gap of 900 (ish) ft lb!!

 

Never found it to be a problem yet, but somehow I sort of think it should be!! No doubt a job will turn up one day that the Hornet is ideal for!!

 

As I have already said, you are not going to win any Olympic medals with the Wolf, but my Tikka T3 is happy enough with the stuff and it's only £100 for 500. I'm pretty sure you couldn't get close to reloading anything for that price!

Edited January 24, 2010 by Dekers

[wildfowler.250]

Many thanks again for the replies!

 

If you're going to shoot roe, then get a 223 and be done. Yes your rabbits will be blown to bits, but in all seriousness - of the amount you shoot, how many do you eat?

 

With a 223 for deer, I would definitely reload. While the Wolf ammo does work in some rifles (I've seen it work in Deker's, but I've put it through 3 and it's been awful) it can be a nightmare if not.

 

I have about 400 of the things spare, and will happily chuck them in if you buy Deker's! As an aside, a very accurate round can be made by removing the bullet and adding a 55gr Nosler ballistic tip. They're slow (3000fps) but my old Remington put them into a one-hole group at 100 yards.

 

Thanks for the kind offer regarding the ammo! Im going to have to speak to my firearms department to get an increase in the ammount of bullets I can hold asap,(60 max at the momment for .223 ). Is there any 'excuse' I can use to convince him to up that to say buy 500 store 600? that would be far easier if I was to go down the reloading route and buying bigger batches of ammo is always cheaper but im sure thats not a ligitamate excuse in their opinion?

 

I am pretty much sorted, and I've been able to deal with all the problems I have faced so far

 

I have 7 different FAC tools and several SGC tools, but .22WMR=320ft lb (ish), and .223=1200-1300ft lb (ish),

so a gap of 900 (ish) ft lb!!

 

Never found it to be a problem yet, but somehow I sort of think it should be!! No doubt a job will turn up one day that the Hornet is ideal for!!

 

As I have already said, you are not going to win any Olympic medals with the Wolf, but my Tikka T3 is happy enough with the stuff and it's only £100 for 500. I'm pretty sure you couldn't get close to reloading anything for that price!

 

Nope, I have to agree that is very cheap! And I could always replace the bullets with say nosler ballistic tips if needed

 

 

ATB

[Mr_Logic]

Reloading is indeed considered good reason for holding a load of ammo. Try the feo with 1000/1200, point out that availability can be lacking, and that you want it for rabbits too so you expect a high volume of usage.

 

To macca - yes the fireball gives more speed than a Hornet, and I Wouldn't mind trying one, but I wish people would stop saying things are 'far more accurate than a Hornet' as they aren't, not with the right ammo. Mine shoots sub half inch all day long - two 3-shot groups (normally 5-shot) of .2 ish yesterday when zeroing. hornet's perfectly accurate!

[al4x]

if you can't better an inch at 50 yards with any brand of HMR ammo you've got a problem either scope rifle or user somethings at fault. Just be careful telling your FEO you want a .223 as a rabbit gun he may not like it

[wildfowler.250]

if you can't better an inch at 50 yards with any brand of HMR ammo you've got a problem either scope rifle or user somethings at fault. Just be careful telling your FEO you want a .223 as a rabbit gun he may not like it

 

that was only with remingtons. The only thing I could think of was to try shooting them with the mod off to see if it makes a difference; what do you think? Hornadys/Winchesters were spot on and I haven't tried the federals

[wildfowler.250]

Reloading is indeed considered good reason for holding a load of ammo. Try the feo with 1000/1200, point out that availability can be lacking, and that you want it for rabbits too so you expect a high volume of usage.

 

To macca - yes the fireball gives more speed than a Hornet, and I Wouldn't mind trying one, but I wish people would stop saying things are 'far more accurate than a Hornet' as they aren't, not with the right ammo. Mine shoots sub half inch all day long - two 3-shot groups (normally 5-shot) of .2 ish yesterday when zeroing. hornet's perfectly accurate!

 

thanks for that, sounds like a good excuse to me

[al4x]

can't see it should make much difference if they're all 17 grain Vmax's they usually shoot very similar and the batches are far more consistent than 1 inch at 50 yards so something is an issue

[wildfowler.250]

Thanks

 

I can get the winchesters to go virtually into the same hole at that range so I just put it down to my gun not 'liking' the Remington ammo all 17 grain btw.