Al Downie Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 (edited) You should be shootign targets and not game if you can only get a 50% kill ratio. I'm ashamed to say that sometimes I do get only a 50% return on my cartridges - sometimes even less than that if it's a really **** day and the birds aren't coming in as close as I'd like. On *really* bad days however, I have 100% success when I shoot my decoys. That helps a lot! Edited February 17, 2010 by Al Downie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron airgunner Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 But there's a chance that you'll not get a shot at all if you wait for the perfect, clean head shot. If we agree that we're talking about pest control, I reckon it's better to knock 'em down any way you can, even if that means going forwards to despatch them immediately after the shot, than to faff about waiting for the pigeon to present its head properly. no, i would much rather go back home at the end of the day with no pigeons after waiting for 10 to present there head than go back at the end of the day with 9 pigeons in the bag and one pigeon wounded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downie Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 no, i would much rather go back home at the end of the day with no pigeons after waiting for 10 to present there head than go back at the end of the day with 9 pigeons in the bag and one pigeon wounded I'm wondering what the farmer would say about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George1990 Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 He'd say well done for being a responsible shooter. It's unlikely an airgunner goes out soley as a pest controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 He'd say well done for being a responsible shooter. It's unlikely an airgunner goes out soley as a pest controller. You've not met any farmers yet then? I'd love to be able to take my cocker out with the air rifle, but I can't imagine he'll ever be any use where stealth or patience is required! What kind of dog d'you have, and how do you work him (or keep him quiet!) when you're stalking or laying up? Ruby is an ESS basket case from a rescue centre. When I'm walking up with the gun or rod she stays at heel. When I'm sat in the hide or on my fishing chair she lays quietly at my feet. She'll work a beating line under control (how many spaniels can you say that about?), will search and flush or retrieve on command, and when she's not doing that or fetching her ball she's a spoilt rug-rat who spends all day on the setee or under my wife's desk at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmboy99 Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I've dropped hundreds of pigeon/doves with body shots with a .177. same as i only use .177 i shot pigeon all the time and doves are even easier either one will kill it unless you hit its **** or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrier Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 (edited) Shot with a Tuned HW97k .177 Fac, 35 yards high in a huge red beech. In aside the chest and out on the wing, stone dead before it touched the ground. Edit: with Jsb exact 4,52mm Edited February 17, 2010 by terrier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 50% kill ratio? Are you joking? What you mean by kill. Hit or miss, or kill or wound? You should be shootign targets and not game if you can only get a 50% kill ratio. I would be amazed if anyone could honestly say that over the course of a year their cartridge to kill ratio is more than 50% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon_snIPer Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Body shots at 30 yards can surely be taken. Nothing wrong in that. /s/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron airgunner Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 same as i only use .177 i shot pigeon all the time and doves are even easier either one will kill it unless you hit its **** or something just to be clear guys you are talking about wood pigeon and not ferals, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron airgunner Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 EVERYONE LOOK AT THIS it will end this argument for ever as zini know what hes talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downie Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 EVERYONE LOOK AT THIS it will end this argument for ever as zini know what hes talking about. End the argument for ever? I doubt it!!! But I'd definitely register that video as a solid vote for 'body shot'. I gotta say I'm not very impressed by videos like that - obviously filmed over more than one day, and most likely edited to omit all the poor shots. And among the shots that made the cut, I reckon some weren't quite as 'clinical' as he described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirFox Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 EVERYONE LOOK AT THIS it will end this argument for ever as zini know what hes talking about. Some good shooting there, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Shot with a Tuned HW97k .177 Fac, 35 yards high in a huge red beech. In aside the chest and out on the wing, stone dead before it touched the ground. Edit: with Jsb exact 4,52mm Bloody hell, what foot poundage is the 97? Its only gone and blew all its bloody feathers off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 just to be clear guys you are talking about wood pigeon and not ferals, right? No, all pigeon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron airgunner Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 End the argument for ever? I doubt it!!! But I'd definitely register that video as a solid vote for 'body shot'. I gotta say I'm not very impressed by videos like that - obviously filmed over more than one day, and most likely edited to omit all the poor shots. And among the shots that made the cut, I reckon some weren't quite as 'clinical' as he described. WHAT? it was supposed to be a strong vote that head shots are alway the most popular shots. zini is an excelent marksman, you should see his other vids. he disected the pigeons before hand to find out exactly what angle he needed for the heart shot. and ferals are more delicate than woodys so will go down with a chest shot. they were all kill shots. everyone knows pigeons flap on the way down, its nerves going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downie Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 WHAT? it was supposed to be a strong vote that head shots are alway the most popular shots. Well I think your plan backfired! Where the head was bobbing or not side-on, he did the right thing in my opinion and took the chest shot, and in one clear instance a 'shoulder' shot. It seemed clear to me that he took the best shot he could, but the lack of a head shot would NOT deter him from taking an alternative shot! everyone knows pigeons flap on the way down, its nerves going. I accept that pigeons/chickens/rabbits etc *can* twitch after brain death, and everyone just dismisses it as 'nerves', but can you really tell the difference in that video between a pigeon whose brain is dead, to one which is taking several seconds to die? I've certainly had to nip out from the hide to despatch a wounded bird which is flapping just like some of those he left on the roof - until it's eyes have stopped flickering and its mouth stopped moving, I assume it's still suffering. But I'm still happy to take the best shot I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron airgunner Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 if you put a pellet through a pigeons brain it will be dead. and on many occasions i have shot a pigeon through the brain and it has flapped on the way down. as long as the pigeon is dead before it hits the floor i'm happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakeyba Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 Excuse me, new to the forum and first 'serious' post. An intersting thread with a certain amount of pigeon **** thrown in. As yet I am without SGC (applying). I have shot airfirles on and off for a number of years. Despite what anyone anyone says chest shots taken with a AR (~12ftlbs) even at close range (for example, more or less vertical, where head not visible) do not always kill instantly (e.g. bird firmly down but not stone dead) even at close range. Eqaully, I have shot pigeons clean in the head that flap for longer than it takes them to hit the ground. Personally I dont have a problem with this - simply pick it up and ring its neck- its bound to happen now and then its part and parcel of the nature of what of you are doing- hunting. Interesting is the tendency for shotgunners to readily admit birds dont always die instantly, whereas within airgunning this is far more taboo. This is something I have recently picked up on and find quite interesting, I understand that airguns should be used more 'responsibly' (e.g knowing their limitations) and, I would never advocate taking shots which are more likley to wound than kill though (you wouldnt go for a chest shot with a rabbit would you?). As for the post editing etc bit of sad state of affairs- (the whiff of the internet know it all is strong!) I dont really know what Im driving at here but I have a beer or two and thought I would air my (slightly underdeveloped) views. I for one will continue to take chest shots with my .22 at sensible ranges and admit the fact they wont always ease my concoius by quietly flying off to pigeon heaven. Jake L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron airgunner Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 welcome to the forum jake. i accpet that most of the time a pigeon with a chest shot with a .22 will go down but the fact is i have shot pigeons in the chest with a .22 and they have flown off. so in my opinion that means there is a chance of that happening again, and however small that chance is, i don't want to take it. so thats why i would only take head shots and neck shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downie Posted February 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 so in my opinion that means there is a chance of that happening again, and however small that chance is, i don't want to take it. so thats why i would only take head shots and neck shot. Are you saying that there's absolutely no chance of you missing the brain with your head shot, resulting in a horribly injured bird flying off and being unable to feed itself, only to die of starvation a couple of days later? You score 100% with every shot you take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrier Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 About flying away after a head/bodyshot. I shot many birds in my life, with shottie's, airguns.. you name it. My expierience is that once hit deadly, birds and aspecialy pigeons can fly an end before they are dead, not always, but they can. The nerve system works as long there's blood in the body, and after that. Its usefull to follow them in their flight, after a shot. I shoot most pigeons behind my backyard, between the tree's and sometimes I have to make a 150 yards walk, becouse I know I hit it deadly and they come down. Most of that time they are hit in the stomach or lungs when they do that, and I dont know ... do they suffer? Never asked, becouse most of the time they are dead when I found them after their last flight. Shooting is NOT an exact science, and I think everyone needs good target-practising before start shooting a livin annimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron airgunner Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 Are you saying that there's absolutely no chance of you missing the brain with your head shot, resulting in a horribly injured bird flying off and being unable to feed itself, only to die of starvation a couple of days later? You score 100% with every shot you take? no what im saying is that a pellet going through the brain of th bird will kill it. end of story. but a pellet going through the chest of the bird will kill 99.9% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Downie Posted February 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 no what im saying is that a pellet going through the brain of th bird will kill it. end of story. but a pellet going through the chest of the bird will kill 99.9% of the time. Can't argue with any of that. My point was only that some folk seem to be totally precious about the 'perfect head shot', because it's (in their words) a guaranteed kill, and they won't take a chest shot because it's not a guaranteed kill. But if you acknowledge that ANY shooter can still **** up a shot in ANY circumstances, then there's no such thing as a guaranteed kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron airgunner Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 correct. i have had a think about it and the term 'chest shot' is very vauge. if you did disect a pigeon and find the heart which is the vital organ you could probably take quite succesful shots but you would need to know exactly where it is. your right there is no garunteed kill, but we as airgunners try and make the odds of getting a kill as much as possible for ourselves by making sure we are as accurate as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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